X-Pat Thread

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

One anecdote: My uncle, a 1st marine Division veteran, brought home a Japanese sniper's rifle, a thing of great attraction for a young boy. It was kept at my grandmother's house. (had he made her a present of it upon his return?) One day my grandmother told me I could have it. I lived about 5 blocks away, so off I went carrying this rather heavy small caliber rifle. At the corner gas station, where they were always working on cars (that once was the norm) were two cops hanging out with the owner. (timing is everything) One called to me - "Son, would come over here please." I told him my story and how the gun didn't work. A brief inspection proved that erroneous. They told me to have my Dad come back later and pick up the rifle from the station owner. He did and it came home. Today I would have been spread eagled on the deck as a minimum, possibly shot if I wasn't white.

It's somewhat OT, but I have a similar story.

My grandfather also brought back a Japanese rifle from WWII. I think it was a 7.7 mm Type 99, or something similar. He gave it to my dad, but I ended up shooting it much more than either of them. I grew up with guns, including having shot my first one when I was all of two years old. I recall taking a gun safety class in order to get a duck hunting license when I was about 10, and the instructor said I knew as much as he did. Anyway, a good friend of mine and I used to go shooting regularly with my father. One day, when I was about 13 (so about 1972) we wanted to go to the range after school, but my dad couldn't take us. So, we decided to go on our own. We wanted to take 4 rifles, including the Type 99. We took the bolts out of the ones we could, and one of us carried the bolts and ammo from one gun, while the other carried the rest of the gun, in a case. Each of us strapped two rifles to our backs, and rode our bikes about 5 miles to the range, passing lots of traffic on a busy road as we went. We got to the range, did our shooting, and returned afterwards. Totally safe and uneventful. This was in Silicon Valley (Cupertino).

Can you imagine something like that today? Two young teens riding their bikes in a suburban area of California with 4 rifles and multiple boxes of ammunition? My, how the world has changed!

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Looks like electrical workers are in very high demand there! I could maybe get in.

Christchurch earthquakes would be a playing a role in that.

When I was back home there were a fair number of foreign tradies working in Christchurch, most noticeably from the UK.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sharky, I've read your posts on NZ with interest.
If I wasn't already set-up in the US, and didn't have a wife adverse to moving, I'd might move to NZ.

Still, I am curious about the requirements for someone from the US moving to NZ.
Do you have any info on that . . . . ?

NZ has a couple of different immigration programs. The one most people come in on is the Skilled Migrant program. Basically, they're looking for people with skills that are in demand, and who can also find a job here (who are under 55, in reasonably good health, and without a criminal record).

They also have "investment" and "entrepreneur" programs, but the costs and requirements can be tough.

If you can't qualify for one of the "primary" programs, but can still get a job offer from an NZ company, you can come over on a work visa, and stay for up to 2 yrs.

If you don't want to move, almost anyone can visit for up to 6 months/yr (possibly every year) with a visitor's visa. You don't have free access to the medical system that way, nor can you vote and so on like you can once you have permanent residence, but if you'd just like to spend some time here, it's an option.

If you'd like more details, I'm happy to answer questions if I can.

FWIW, my wife was averse to moving at first, too. It was only after we came to visit for a few weeks, and she developed some comfort with the area, that she changed her mind.

[BadJuju]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Looks like electrical workers are in very high demand there! I could maybe get in.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sharky, I've read your posts on NZ with interest.
If I wasn't already set-up in the US, and didn't have a wife adverse to moving, I'd might move to NZ.

Still, I am curious about the requirements for someone from the US moving to NZ.
Do you have any info on that . . . . ?

There's a couple different routes to take:

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migra...quirements.htm

Plus fast track skills shortage list(not sure if current):

http://www.visabureau.com/newzealand...tage-list.aspx

[raja]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sharky, I've read your posts on NZ with interest.
If I wasn't already set-up in the US, and didn't have a wife adverse to moving, I'd might move to NZ.

Still, I am curious about the requirements for someone from the US moving to NZ.
Do you have any info on that . . . . ?

[jiimbergin]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I know what you mean about the difference between getting your passport stamped and being on your way vs. the security gauntlet in the US. NZ sounds similar to Uruguay in that way, although they do have the added step of an agricultural inspection (x-ray and food-sniffing dogs) on your way into the country.

I've always wanted to visit South America, but have never been. Uruguay is definitely on my list. My sister's husband is from Chile and my niece's husband is from Ecuador, both of which I'd also like to see. I'm less sure about Belize and Peru, where I've heard crime rates are high, particularly crime against foreigners. I have a close friend from Argentina, and used to hear wonderful things about it, but it still seems dangerous ever since their economic collapse.

BTW, in case you aren't aware, NZ already had an economic collapse, back in the early 90's. Their stock market, currency, real estate and so on, all collapsed. So they made some massive changes and have been re-building since then -- fortunately, mostly in the right direction, as opposed to Argentina, for example, which seems to have made some significant wrong turns. NZ has just started privatizing some state-owned assets (the first one is a big hydro/geothermal power company). The Christchurch earthquake put the government in the red, but they actually expect to be back in surplus (again!) within about 2 more years.

Another pro for NZ: no open container law, so you can have an open beer in your car without getting busted if you're stopped, as long as your blood alcohol is under the limit. That's balanced in part by pretty frequent mandatory roadside breath testing, for which they don't require a warrant. Having a driver's license means you consent to the test.

My late wife and I spent about 3 weeks in NZ for our 25th anniversary in 1990. We loved it. It really seemed like we were back in US in the 50s. I have always wanted to go back, but have not had a chance yet. It was probably our favorite trip ever.

[don]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

The main thing was that my family and I decided we would like to try living out of the US for a while. My kids (twin boys) were 17 at the time, and in the post-911 world, we thought it would be an interesting and educational experience for all of us. We figured there was a good chance it wouldn't work out, in which case we would either try somewhere else or just move back. But we also figured that doing it half-assed wouldn't really give us an accurate picture, so we dove in with both feet.

A secondary issue, but not the main one for us back in 2005 when this all started, is that we lived in California (Silicon Valley), and we could see the light ahead from the oncoming train of increasing taxation, regulation and government intervention. The situation was already bad, and getting worse by the day. Better to get out the way before we got run over.

I expected all kinds of things to be different after we moved, but there were a bunch of things that surprised me -- one big one was how different the US looks from the outside, once you have some perspective. The impression that we Americans (and yes, I still and will always consider myself to be an American) have of ourselves is that we live in the freest country on the planet. iTulipers probably know better than most, but that's clearly not true.

Actually living in a place that's more free is an amazingly uplifting experience. It makes me appreciate how many immigrants to the US must have felt. It's something that hits you in a hundred ways; everything from being able to have chickens at my suburban home if I wanted to, to seeing carts on street corners and at the weekend open-air market, selling food they made in their kitchens at home. Or parades of costumed young kids filling the streets at Halloween with no police in sight. Or other kids racing down a hill at high-speed in homemade and totally unsafe (and immensely fun) go-karts. Several of the shows on TV made the immense censorship in the US suddenly obvious.

The area I live in reminds me of what the suburban US must have been like in the late 50s and early 60s. A few anecdotes: I've seen a woman leave her purse in a shopping cart at the grocery, with her wallet in full view, and walk to the other end of the store. I regularly see 5 or 6 yr old kids walking on the side of the street, by themselves. Most people don't lock the doors to their house at night (or ever); when friends come over, they often just walk in and announce themselves, without knocking. Police are known to help people change a flat tire. When a party gets too loud and someone complains, police quietly ask people to leave, and offer rides to those who are drunk; no arrests or tasers. It's common for people to leave valuables in unlocked cars without problems. Tellers at the bank know my name, and are actually friendly and will talk to me like I'm a real human. I wave to people on the street I know, and they wave back. Or, I had a guy just the other day who knocked on my door and asked if he could borrow a tool. A total stranger. I invited him in, found what he needed, he was very thankful, and then left.

Can you imagine most of those kinds of things in the US today? Anywhere? I realize part of it comes from living in a small town, but even so, I can't -- and I've certainly traveled around quite a bit.

Brings back a lot of memories, Sharky. In many ways I grew up like that.

One anecdote: My uncle, a 1st marine Division veteran, brought home a Japanese sniper's rifle, a thing of great attraction for a young boy. It was kept at my grandmother's house. (had he made her a present of it upon his return?) One day my grandmother told me I could have it. I lived about 5 blocks away, so off I went carrying this rather heavy small caliber rifle. At the corner gas station, where they were always working on cars (that once was the norm) were two cops hanging out with the owner. (timing is everything) One called to me - "Son, would come over here please." I told him my story and how the gun didn't work. A brief inspection proved that erroneous. They told me to have my Dad come back later and pick up the rifle from the station owner. He did and it came home. Today I would have been spread eagled on the deck as a minimum, possibly shot if I wasn't white.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I know what you mean about the difference between getting your passport stamped and being on your way vs. the security gauntlet in the US. NZ sounds similar to Uruguay in that way, although they do have the added step of an agricultural inspection (x-ray and food-sniffing dogs) on your way into the country.

I've always wanted to visit South America, but have never been. Uruguay is definitely on my list. My sister's husband is from Chile and my niece's husband is from Ecuador, both of which I'd also like to see. I'm less sure about Belize and Peru, where I've heard crime rates are high, particularly crime against foreigners. I have a close friend from Argentina, and used to hear wonderful things about it, but it still seems dangerous ever since their economic collapse.

BTW, in case you aren't aware, NZ already had an economic collapse, back in the early 90's. Their stock market, currency, real estate and so on, all collapsed. So they made some massive changes and have been re-building since then -- fortunately, mostly in the right direction, as opposed to Argentina, for example, which seems to have made some significant wrong turns. NZ has just started privatizing some state-owned assets (the first one is a big hydro/geothermal power company). The Christchurch earthquake put the government in the red, but they actually expect to be back in surplus (again!) within about 2 more years.

Another pro for NZ: no open container law, so you can have an open beer in your car without getting busted if you're stopped, as long as your blood alcohol is under the limit. That's balanced in part by pretty frequent mandatory roadside breath testing, for which they don't require a warrant. Having a driver's license means you consent to the test.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I think a lot of that happens still today in smal communities, especially in farming states. But certainly not in big cities. I live in a fairly affluent community where kids levae stuff around all the time and it does not walk off, but parents are still 'helicopter parents' nonetheless.

Whenever I go to Uruguay I always feel more free than in the US, which really makes me sad. Especially when you return, you always feel like you are running a gauntlet of security. I have asked Uruguayans how they feel about travel to the US and if they feel like a criminal when they arrive, and invariably they say yes. I show up in uruguay and get the obligatory stamp without a second look and I am on my way. This is not to say it is a 'better place', just a different place. However in that different place, you can smoke a joint without being hassled, drink a beer on the beach at 4Am without being arrested, and speed limits are mostly advisories. And my whole farming biz? I have never signed a contract with anyone about anything. Imagine trying to do that in the US?

I would love to live in the kind of place you live. I love it every time I am down on the farm in Uruguay. It's peaceful and so much less 'affluent' in that 'keep up with the Jones' aspect of life. The missus could never live in a small farm town, but it would suit me just fine.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Ok, lots of positives! So what made you move to begin with?

The main thing was that my family and I decided we would like to try living out of the US for a while. My kids (twin boys) were 17 at the time, and in the post-911 world, we thought it would be an interesting and educational experience for all of us. We figured there was a good chance it wouldn't work out, in which case we would either try somewhere else or just move back. But we also figured that doing it half-assed wouldn't really give us an accurate picture, so we dove in with both feet.

A secondary issue, but not the main one for us back in 2005 when this all started, is that we lived in California (Silicon Valley), and we could see the light ahead from the oncoming train of increasing taxation, regulation and government intervention. The situation was already bad, and getting worse by the day. Better to get out the way before we got run over.

I expected all kinds of things to be different after we moved, but there were a bunch of things that surprised me -- one big one was how different the US looks from the outside, once you have some perspective. The impression that we Americans (and yes, I still and will always consider myself to be an American) have of ourselves is that we live in the freest country on the planet. iTulipers probably know better than most, but that's clearly not true.

Actually living in a place that's more free is an amazingly uplifting experience. It makes me appreciate how many immigrants to the US must have felt. It's something that hits you in a hundred ways; everything from being able to have chickens at my suburban home if I wanted to, to seeing carts on street corners and at the weekend open-air market, selling food they made in their kitchens at home. Or parades of costumed young kids filling the streets at Halloween with no police in sight. Or other kids racing down a hill at high-speed in homemade and totally unsafe (and immensely fun) go-karts. Several of the shows on TV made the immense censorship in the US suddenly obvious.

The area I live in reminds me of what the suburban US must have been like in the late 50s and early 60s. A few anecdotes: I've seen a woman leave her purse in a shopping cart at the grocery, with her wallet in full view, and walk to the other end of the store. I regularly see 5 or 6 yr old kids walking on the side of the street, by themselves. Most people don't lock the doors to their house at night (or ever); when friends come over, they often just walk in and announce themselves, without knocking. Police are known to help people change a flat tire. When a party gets too loud and someone complains, police quietly ask people to leave, and offer rides to those who are drunk; no arrests or tasers. It's common for people to leave valuables in unlocked cars without problems. Tellers at the bank know my name, and are actually friendly and will talk to me like I'm a real human. I wave to people on the street I know, and they wave back. Or, I had a guy just the other day who knocked on my door and asked if he could borrow a tool. A total stranger. I invited him in, found what he needed, he was very thankful, and then left.

Can you imagine most of those kinds of things in the US today? Anywhere? I realize part of it comes from living in a small town, but even so, I can't -- and I've certainly traveled around quite a bit.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Ok, lots of positives! So what made you move to begin with?

[BadJuju]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Nice write-up, Sharky! Back years ago, we all joked around a bit on here about moving to NZ because it sounded great.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sorry, but I don't want Sharky, another name for the corrupt Saruman, to spread the black word of his dark lord Sauron here.

Don't worry, I left the Dark Lord behind when I moved (used to work for Microsoft).

I have family in NZ, it is an enchanting place besides the fact the Aussies treat the NZ folks like second class.

Yes, and NZ folks treat Aussies the same way -- particularly in sports like Rugby. It's more a brother-like rivalry and teasing, though, than anything serious.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Absolutely update us to all the pros and cons, I for one would love to hear it!

People talk a lot about NZ from a beauty perspective. For me, while that's a wonderul side-benefit, it's one of the least important in the bigger scheme of things.

Pros:

1. Great people. This is really #1 for me.
2. English-speaking, Western culture. Culture is a huge part of our lives. Moving into a relatively familiar one like NZ was hard enough; moving into a truly foreign one would be torture, particularly if you have a family.
3. No capital gains taxes
4. No inheritance taxes or gift duties
5. No taxes on the sale of pure precious metals (0.999+)
6. Low property taxes, based on the value of the land only, not on improvements
7. Well-managed immigration policies (a pro if you get in; a con if you don't!)
8. Laws that respect individual rights in many areas: gambling and prostitution are legal, for example
9. Sane and fair legal system (you can buy a house in 24 hours, start-to-finish, with a 4-page contract; no million-dollar damage awards; fully Western-style court system, though with a British influence)
10. Income tax process is simple and understandable (short form with only about 40 "lines"; considered late 12 months from the due date)
11. Stable banking system (regular ratings are required by law; no deposit insurance that might otherwise encourage risky behavior by banks)
12. Central bank targets inflation alone, not unemployment -- which tends to keep the monetary system more stable
13. When moving here, there are no taxes or duties on your belongings (unlike Costa Rica, for example). I brought three 40 ft shipping containers full of stuff, and paid zero taxes; just a small agricultural inspection fee
14. Guns are legal, although they require permits and registration. Handgun ownership also requires membership in a pistol club and regular practice.
15. The country is full or farmers, and exports much of what it produces. In a crisis, food would be relatively available.
16. Relatively low violent crime rates, especially in rural areas, and especially on the South Island.
17. Strong "Popsicle factor" outside of the big cities. Great place to raise kids.
18. In 2010, NZ tied for first place with Denmark and Singapore as the least corrupt country in the world. The US ranked 22nd.
19. In 2011, NZ ranked 4th in the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, behind Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia. The US ranked 9th.
20. It's legal to own a still and to distill alcohol for personal use. You can also grow your own tobacco if you're so inclined (both are not legal in the US).
21. A strong and growing wine industry, producing good quality products.
22. Police are actually helpful and pleasant.
23. Liberal broadcast standards on TV, although they vary somewhat by time of day. What you see on cable TV in the US is largely available on over-the-air TV in NZ.
24. High-quality health care is readily available, although the system is quirky in places.
25. Non-jet-based domestic air travel involves no intrusive security checks. No x-rays or metal detectors; just walk on the plane. The door to the cockpit is sometimes open during flight.

Cons:

1. Partially socialized medicine, which is offset in part by a parallel private system. Having lived with it a while, it's not all bad, though. Cost to see a GP is about NZ$35 (US$28) for 15 minutes. Most drugs are NZ$3 for a 30-day course. Emergency treatment is free, and so on.
2. Drugs are illegal. Penalties are fairly light for MJ use/possession/growing, but extreme for stronger drugs like heroin or LSD (life in prison for manufacture or supply). Amphetamines (called "P") present the biggest drug problem here.
3. Goods and Services Tax of 15% (like a national sales tax)
4. Welfare state policies (welfare is generally too easy to get)
5. Prices have gone up quite a bit in the last 10 to 15 yrs. Not cheap any more, but not horribly expensive, either
6. Shipping in and out of the country by air is expensive
7. Income taxes. Rates range from 10.5% (under NZ$10,500) to 33% (over $70,000).
8. It takes 5 yrs before you can apply for NZ citizenship.

There's more, but that's a start. Happy to answer questions if I can.