Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

[Down Under]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

Kill the third "bank of the united states" the FED, and do direct governement debt issue as JFK with silver notes. No more PRIVATE issuance of credit. Banks still exist but the are ONLY INTERMEDIARIES between the US ISSUED (not fed issued) credit and the borrower. They become middle men, not issuers of debt.

Yer, well a bit of honesty and integrity would sure help, now, wouldn't it.

Honesty and integrity, more or less a summary of all that you've said.

[Down Under]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

There was a time when companies were built entirely from profits - I believe Louis Renault didn't borrow a dime. maybe we can't go back to those halcyon days but the thinking is right.

Cisco is one such company. Story of Cisco is that in the early days, it raised some venture capital money, think it would be needed for expansion etc, and sold a large chunk of the company in return.

The VC money was never needed; it simply sat in the bank and was never spent. Truly amazing.

[Rajiv]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

wow. The "burn, baby, burn" crowd has the floor here. Punish them all, right?

I hope you didn't equate me with the "burn, baby, burn" crowd -- I have never been in favor of burning babies! ;)

[goadam1]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

The question is: is it worth it to have the good of the many outweigh the costs of a few? Didn't anyone see, "Wraith of Khan."

Not all solutions can come from every market player running for cover. You can't build a new future hiding it all under the bed.

[goadam1]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

If all post-war recessions were centered around over production of housing, then is there any business we can really invest in besides "growth?"

[goadam1]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

wow. The "burn, baby, burn" crowd has the floor here. Punish them all, right?

I would easily use a good portion of my capital and buy a "build-a-bond." Think of it as war bonds. What happened to common interest? What happened to thinking of the greater good? You should as an example, pay taxes to immunize your neighbors' kid, not just because it is right, but because you benefit from him not having a disease.

I thought we were Jeffersonian around here.

[MarkL]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

These bonds can use the accumulated savings within the FIRE sector to finance the reconstruction of a new, productive economy .... It will then be the duty of Americans who can afford to buy them to do so, to each according to his means. That is the American way out of a mess like this, with a fair sharing of the burdens of cost.

With "Poom" coming wouldn't buying these bonds be foolish unless they happened to be inflation adjusted? Even then it'd need to be off the PPI, not the CPI. All debt will be deflated when Poom hits, right Eric?

[Rajiv]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

EJ,

What about interviewing Emmanuel Saez from Berkeley? Possibly William Domhoff from UC Santa Cruz

[cjppjc]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

Where are the show trials?

[jtabeb]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

What to do to build for the future? How to finance it?

ONE way dude, and ONE way ONLY.

Kill the third "bank of the united states" the FED, and do direct governement debt issue as JFK with silver notes. No more PRIVATE issuance of credit. Banks still exist but the are ONLY INTERMEDIARIES between the US ISSUED (not fed issued) credit and the borrower. They become middle men, not issuers of debt.

This requires a two tiered structure for US Gov Debt, T-bills and Bonds, on the lower tier, and Gold Backed infrastructure and Green energy notes as the top tier. (Super senior debt collateralized by the US Gold reserves)

Make the transfer of PMs into currency (sale to the Government ONLY) a NON TAXABLE event for anyone (even foreigners, drag the ALL worlds gold over here in the process, not a bad idea if you ask me) , people would sell their PM's to buy things (and they would buy things, trust me, (I feel I am uniquely qualified to speak in that reguard as an ALL IN PM holder, I want to buy a house and a FARM, and an airplane factory to make these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkut_360)

Kill the fraud that is COMEX, ban uncollateralized futures trading (if you don't own it, you can't short it, or go long, make it a true risk hedging market like it was supposed to be in the first damn place.)

Re-instate the up-tic rule.

Bail out debtors with Tier two US notes (give debtors the inflation they need to get out from under the debt burden)

Revalue the Gold reserves at 5-10x current spot prices, issues these notes collateralized by GOLD (and the infrastructure, lender's choice of terms of redeement on the notes, e.g. they can CHOOSE to be paid in dollars or gold), that's it, the only way. (this is the Tier One Super senior US debt collateralized by the US GOLD reserves)

Eventually end up at a multi-metallic currency system for the dollar exchange mechanism. Gold, Silver, Plat, Palladium are all free to fluctuate in value against each other AND the Dollar. Each is freely convertible into any other as a NON-taxable event. Purchases of things in the economy ,real or otherwise ,are ONLY allowed in DOLLARS. So savings units (multi-metallics) must be transferred into dollars before the savings that these represent can actually be used. (Banks chartered in the above manner would be PERFECT for this role).

Foreign nations would be forgiven if they think we might pull a "fast one" so the only way to guarentee the security of their principle is to collateralize the loan with gold (they can get a nominal return in dollars too, if the so choose, should the plan be wildly successful, see abovel).

Honestly,

Without Debt forgivness, increasing the social support net, and the above, we are well and truely fucked.

I hope to god someone is listening, but I'm not delusional.

I wish SOMEONE could arrange a meeting between steve keen, michael hudson and Obama.

If he LISTENED to the information that these two would provide, I would be quite enthusiactic actually about our prospects for recovery.

As you mention, I think a solution is EASY, it is the inability to FORCE all the above into being due to the political situation that is what is going to kill us.

I think there are a number of WORKABLE solutions that could all be successful. But they won't happen, just as the above won't happen, because of the lack of a mandate and action.

Don't ever kid yourself EJ, finding a workable and VIABLE, and ultimately SUCCESSFUL solution WAS and NEVER HAS BEEN the problem. (you said so yourself)

It's the impossibility of implementation due to conflicts of finacial interests that's the issue. Always has been, Maybe always will.

So for now, I'm sticking with gold and guns. ( I would change if the above were true, and I know A LOT of PMers would)

Hope that answers your question.

P.S. Don't piss off china and the ME debt holders and Japan, give them first shot and trading in their OLD treasuries for NEW NOTES (after revaluation) before any one else. Got to keep the oil suppliers happy and the Consumer products producers happy (and give them a reason to go a long.

A Win -Win is the ONLY way this works out, if we fuck people, well let's just say I don't think we will get another chance to fuck other countries after doing so so many times.

1933, 1971, Today, we've got a bad rap and we have to MAKE IT WORTH their while to help us. Otherwise, DOOM GLOOM AND BOOM would be a HAPPY FANTASY compared with what we will end up with.

V/R
JT


Added:

http://www.safehaven.com/article-12773.htm

This seems like a good idea as well.

[audrey_girl]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

Yes, I'm being intentionally provocative here, and glad I've smoked out comments from members of the community we have not heard from before.

Consider our unfortunate situation.

On the minus side:

• The FIRE Economy is collapsing
• Unemployment is rising rapidly
• We have minimal savings
• Our credit is in question

On the plus side:

• We have a surfeit of human capital, millions of well educated people who are willing to work hard
• We have strong institutions that took generations to develop, albeit under marginal management lately
• We have a strong rule of law, although poorly enforced as of late, especially for property rights, which is why so much is invented here

What to do to build for the future? How to finance it?

Dear EJ -

You forgot another plus...

the corrupt, self-serving, bought and paid for, asleep at the wheel corporate media is also going the way of the dinosaur:


http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2008/0...ock-value.html

[EJ]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

Yes, I'm being intentionally provocative here, and glad I've smoked out comments from members of the community we have not heard from before.

Consider our unfortunate situation.

On the minus side:

• The FIRE Economy is collapsing
• Unemployment is rising rapidly
• We have minimal savings
• Our credit is in question

On the plus side:

• We have a surfeit of human capital, millions of well educated people who are willing to work hard
• We have strong institutions that took generations to develop, albeit under marginal management lately
• We have a strong rule of law, although poorly enforced as of late, especially for property rights, which is why so much is invented here

What to do to build for the future? How to finance it?

[mr_fibuli]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

the tax code allows the full and immediate deduction of interest or lease payments, but purchase requires depreciating the expenditure over an extended period, which can then produce phantom profits on which taxes must be paid. the only way to avoid the phantom profits tax is to make the purchase on credit instead of out of cash flow.

Which is a wrongly directed incentive - the whole tax system is insanely complicated and out of date but I doubt anyone will try to tackle that problem. I heard an interview on NPR with a guy from the US inland revenue who said that the reason there was an estimate of 300 Billion that was not collected was due to a) people trying to cheat and b) honest mistakes because the tax system was too complicated.

There was a time when companies were built entirely from profits - I believe Louis Renault didn't borrow a dime. maybe we can't go back to those halcyon days but the thinking is right.

[mattley]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

The Treasury Department needs to stop taking trading our precious credit for securities of questionable value and instead issue Infrastructure Development Bonds.

Why would these be any different than a regular T-Bill? I'm not sure you could trust what they said on the label. But even if you could, well, it is a big budget and money is fungible.

I am also curious why you (EJ) believe that spending on "infrastructure" will actually go toward productive projects. I am sure we will see bills like the Rebuilding America With Productive And Responsible Infrastructure Investments Bill of 2010--but I don't expect the politicians who write them to be any wiser, any more responsible, or any less focused on re-election than the politicians of 2006. Would love to read an article elaborating your position sometime.

It will then be the duty of Americans who can afford to buy them to do so, to each according to his means. That is the American way out of a mess like this, with a fair sharing of the burdens of cost.

Interesting transistion from communist slogan to "the American way". I think you're probably not kidding here. Maybe choosing your words to be a little provocative. An interesting change in tone. Looking forward to reading future developments.

[rlskaggs2003]

Re: Can Anything Bring Down the Monthly Payment Consumer? Revisited - Eric Janszen

I have issues with this statement. First I assume it is not sarcasm. And as much as I'd like to do the right thing for the country I find it reprehensible to do so without associated significant change on the political landscape. Do away with the Franks, Dodds, Pelosis and their ilk on the hill and I'm there. Give me status quo and I'd rather take my chances with gold, guns and a little chaos.

my sentiments exactly.