Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

[mesyn191]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Can we unwind the cartel??

Unwinding it is easy, putting something better in its place is hard due to various reasons such as entrenched monied interests (ie. drug companies), CYA measures by the doctors, and legal red tape.

Cookie cutter treatment? If it's not stand operating procedure then were not going to do it?

This is already pretty much the case now. Private/for profit insurers go to great lengths to try and deny claims and/or make it difficult to get therapies.

Because there is profit in the system many discoveries and new technology is developed in the U.S. and exported to the world.

For profit enterprises are not inheritly better at doing anything, theoretically they should be cheaper/better than gov. ran institutions, but this is not always true.

I'm not certain but I think the rest of the world is feeding off the u.s. health system's innovation.

International patent law is fairly strong, and has only been getting stronger lately due to intense lobbying by monied interests. Sure, you still see some tech./meds getting pirated by gray market manufacturers in foreign countries, but its not nearly as widespread as it was a few decades ago. These days I'd actually say more innovative stuff is done overseas than in the US, at least as far as finding ways of making the procedures and imaging equipment cheaper.

With the profit motive removed are we going to get new drugs? new procedures?

Why would you think a UHS will remove all profit for drug companies/doctors? Sure, they'll get less money (which is what should happen), but they can still roll it in. The UHS as it is currently written would get rid of for profit insurance companies.

[mesyn191]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Both options suck and are unsustainable.

I'd say given the politics, politicians, and the business people and business culture both options suck right now (with one sucking significantly less than the other), but if any of those things improve significantly than either of them could become much better or even good. If you think both the private and government options for health care are unsustainable then what are we to do then?

How about option 3: Get government out! The cartel will lose its teeth and we'll once again have an affordable, flourishing health care industry.

The businesses wanted the cartel in the first place, you'd have to get rid of the cartel and the businesses and the laws that hold both of those things together, all of which would require massive government involvement. You'd be right back to square one, which is relying on the people you don't trust and/or who are incompetent to fix the problem.

[cjppjc]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

That is because this is a "no-brainer", most people get told this so much that they're able to blank it out as "noise". Many of them don't overeat not because they don't know any better, they overeat because its a psychological coping mechanism, they're trying to fill some hole in their life with pleasurable experiences and the easiest way for many is to eat food that tastes good. If you tell them not to do it and why they'll just smile and nod and then go buy a Baconator and 64oz Big Gulp of Coke.


People in other countries have different bad habits is all. They tend to be skinny, but they also tend drink and smoke massively for instance, which is just as bad as Americans tendency to overeat until they're morbidly obese. Lung/throat cancer and cirrhosis of the liver is every bit as deadly and debilitating as the heart disease/diabetes type II from obesity. Half a dozen of one, 6 of the other.

Doing stuff that is bad for you is a human problem not a cultural problem.

And it's worse than that. If you change one thing, another appears.

[Mashuri]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

That gov. mandated cartel was established at the behest of private insurance lobbyists way back in the 70's though to control the "market".

The UHS being proposed will probably suck, but I expect it to suck less than current private health insurance. Politicians are involved so they could definitely really screw it up, but the alternative at this point is just to try and maintain status quo, which is not working at all for most Americans.

Both options suck and are unsustainable. How about option 3: Get government out! The cartel will lose its teeth and we'll once again have an affordable, flourishing health care industry.

[cjppjc]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Why is it always partisan with angry people? I'm not a republican but you are right there are lots of people who are responsible for this mess. I would say that since WE are the gov't then WE are responsible for letting it happen...now WE are responsible for making sure it gets fixed.

Bump this thought up.

[charliebrown]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Can we unwind the cartel?? This sounds really scarry to me. I know premiums and office visits etc are going out of sight. But with a redo do we know where the dust is going to settle? Our smarty pants politicians told us a few years ago that the housing market was fine. Go out get an ARM. I have children and parents who need out of band health care. What are they going to get? Cookie cutter treatment? If it's not stand operating procedure then were not going to do it?

Because there is profit in the system many discoveries and new technology is developed in the U.S. and exported to the world. I'm not certain but I think the rest of the world is feeding off the u.s. health system's innovation. With the profit motive removed are we going to get new drugs? new procedures?

[mesyn191]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Interesting how very few talk about getting fit, staying fit and eating a healthy balanced diet as a way to control health costs.

That is because this is a "no-brainer", most people get told this so much that they're able to blank it out as "noise". Many of them don't overeat not because they don't know any better, they overeat because its a psychological coping mechanism, they're trying to fill some hole in their life with pleasurable experiences and the easiest way for many is to eat food that tastes good. If you tell them not to do it and why they'll just smile and nod and then go buy a Baconator and 64oz Big Gulp of Coke.

Travel outside our border and one of the first things you realize is how fat Americans are compared to the rest of the world.

People in other countries have different bad habits is all. They tend to be skinny, but they also tend drink and smoke massively for instance, which is just as bad as Americans tendency to overeat until they're morbidly obese. Lung/throat cancer and cirrhosis of the liver is every bit as deadly and debilitating as the heart disease/diabetes type II from obesity. Half a dozen of one, 6 of the other.

Doing stuff that is bad for you is a human problem not a cultural problem.

[bobola]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Interesting how very few talk about getting fit, staying fit and eating a healthy balanced diet as a way to control health costs.

Travel outside our border and one of the first things you realize is how fat Americans are compared to the rest of the world.

When you commute to work tomorrow, look at all the cars in line at McDonalds and Wendy’s, going for their first meal of the day.

That’s the root of the problem – rotten food at a cheap price close to home and available from the front seat of your car.

[mesyn191]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

"Private" insurance is a cartel controlled and sustained by the government. This is just a consolidation of power. Yay... the mafia is going for its final power grab in health care.

That gov. mandated cartel was established at the behest of private insurance lobbyists way back in the 70's though to control the "market".

The UHS being proposed will probably suck, but I expect it to suck less than current private health insurance. Politicians are involved so they could definitely really screw it up, but the alternative at this point is just to try and maintain status quo, which is not working at all for most Americans.

[mesyn191]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Right, because we all know that governments readily relinquish their power once they get involved in something.:rolleyes:

This is true, however as someone who has worked in health care for almost a decade I have to agree with Mula. Private healthcare as it exists now needs to be annihilated. I already know there'll be plenty of bad/stupid things in a gov. national healthcare system, but they'll be less bad/stupid, which unfortunately is the best we could probably expect out of all this mess.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

TERM LIMITS!

And just when will be the next national referendum where the voters get to vote on whether or not to enact term limits?

If there is anything that is clear to me at this point it is too many people are irresponsible when it comes to "policing" there own actions. How much incentive is there to look after one's own missteps especially if one is being paid not to do so?

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

Great Question! http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/bills/

Current Legislation
Key Bills in Congress
Bill Name Number of Sponsors
S. 147 - Close Guantanamo and Change Interrogation Policies 4 (4 D)
S. 1 - Stimulus Bill 17 (1 I, 16 D)
H.R. 2701 - Intelligence Authorization Act of 2010 1 (1 D)
H.R. 2454 - American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 2 (2 D)
H.R. 1388 - 'A bill entitled "The Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, an Act to reauthorize and reform the national service laws." 39 (1 R, 1 I, 37 D)
H.R. 384 - Reform the Troubled Assets Relief Program (Financial and Auto Bailout) 1 (1 D)
H.R. 227 - Deem that human life begins with fertilization 55 (55 R)
H.R. 157 - Congressional Seat/Vote for DC - Increase House to 437 Seats 4 (4 D)
H.R. 155 - Ban Taxes on Unemployment Benefits for Two Years 42 (35 R, 7 D)
H.R. 15 - Nationalized Health Insurance 1 (1 D)
H.R. 11 - Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 195 (195 D)

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

I think you are looking at the wrong group of people. Average Americans don't get any form of change accomplished, it's above average, motivated individuals that change things. As I recall, the revolution only had about 5% support from the Joe 6 packs of the time period...you never know what people will do when faced with losing their freedom or even just to stop the continual taxation that keeps them from securing the future of their families. Like you said the rest are sheeple and will just follow.

[rjwjr]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

I believe in our system voters elect candidates to look after the business of the country, thinking that something about their individual welfares (and I am not talking "welfare state.") will be looked after, but the candidates are bought and paid for by the time they lay their hands on the Bible, if they actually do that, and their main concern for the voters is only to get into office and be re-elected; otherwise, their allegiance is to those who paid for them

TERM LIMITS!

[rjwjr]

Re: Investor's Business Daily finds an "uh-oh" moment in the House's health-care-for-all bill

I have seen what George Bush Jr. and his Republicans have done to America. I saw the deficits and the waste, plus the outright corruption in government--- and on a scale that I never imagined possible.....

Open your eyes to the current administration. Your comments are comical in the face of the current deficits, ignoring of the constitution, and disregard for contract law that the current administration has shown. I'm no George Bush lover, but your arguments are the most hypocritical and/or blinded that I have seen in quite some time. In my opinion, we don't even have a two-party system any more. There are no Democrats, there are no Republicans, there are only politicians...and their reputations are plummeting as their self-serving power and money grabs continue. These people are truly becoming the scum of the earth.

And here in California, I am now seeing what Reaganomics has done over the long-term; the State is completely bankrupt, and it is issuing warrants (IOUs) to pay its bills.

You are blaming Reagan for California's current problems?! You are a piece of work and one dangerous liberal. You don't know what you don't know...that's your biggest problem and the scariest aspect of your opinions.

It's always funny how the most partisan participants are typically the ones to call the other side partisan.