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Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

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  • Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

    Marc Faber's latest news letter is dollar bullish, and says Europe is in worse shape than the US:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/...lan-likes.html

    TEXT OF ARTICLE:

    We have a certain fondness for Marc Faber: he knows financial history, he is refreshingly direct, not attached to conventional thinking, and has a record of generally good investment calls (and admits to his mistakes).

    Reader Dean provided us his latest newsletter, plus a story covering recent interviews (no, Dean is not his PR agent, just a disciple). Some excerpts, first from the BusinessIntelligence article:Any proposal to rescue the US financial system will fail to avert a recession said Marc Faber, the Swiss fund manager and Gloom Boom & Doom editor and publisher, now based in Thailand.

    A stock rally in the event that a package is approved will be temporary and should be used as 'an opportunity' to sell, said Faber.

    "The rejection of the package is good because it shows that some people in the US are still sane," Faber said... "A bailout will not buy the US a way out. The government is less powerful than markets in fixing this mess."

    "Most of the investment community are focusing on the financial crisis," Faber told TV newswire last night.

    "But what they should be focusing on is that earnings will continue to disappoint for a long time, and that global growth is going to go down substantially. Most economies already today are in recession."

    Noting that the US Dollar should continue to find support as investors rush to try and re-pay their debts "I think gold will be a relatively good investment under any kind of scenario until the US government bans the ownership of Gold in the United States.

    "They are very good at changing the rules of the game – now banning short sales .

    "So yes – physical gold, you should own. Not derivatives with Citigroup, J.P.Morgan, UBS and investment banks, but physical and outside the US,And from his newsletter:I should add that, unlike what Mr. Paulson says, falling house prices are not the problem. It is the huge leverage that is the problem. If your house is 100% self-financed (no mortgage outstanding) a rise or a decline in the value of your house has no direct economic or financial impact. In short, my view is that the bail-out plan is not addressing the cause of the problem, which is excessive leverage. Moreover, it is unlikely to help struggling homeowners but is designed to encourage even more speculation by financial companies. Peter Boockvar of Millar Tabak is furthermore concerned that it will lead to further bailouts.

    According to him,the Paulson bailout plan is a government bailout of the previously failed government bailout which was a bailout of the previously failed government bailout etc… Each bailout had its own unintended consequences which the next bailout tried to address. Greenspan bailed out the economy after the stock market bubble popped with 1% interest rates which sowed the seeds for thecredit bubble. In order to bail us out, Bernanke slashed interest rates to 2% and a dramatic rise in commodity prices ensued. When that bailout didn’t work, he instituted a bailout of the investment banks with the initiation of the TSLF and PDCF credit facilities for investment banks. That slowed down the deleveraging process as it gave the investment banks a false sense of security. I highlight Dick Fuld’s comments soon after it began where he said it takes the liquidity issue off the table. The lack of dramatic deleveraging brought us to last week’s panic in GS and MS, a failed LEH and a shotgun wedding for MER which led us to the Paulson bailout. The unintended consequence of this bailout will be a much lower US$ and selloff in the US bond market which will leave us with higher interest rates and higher mortgage rates throw’s the intentions of the Paulson plan out the window. Who will bailout this bailout”?

    .....here's a plan for Washington DC, tell the banks to stop paying dividends to their shareholders. I went back and looked at just 20 of the top banks, including GS, MS and MER and saw that they are paying out $40 Billion per year out in dividends. The lending rule of thumb is $1 of capital can service $10 of lending. That is $400 Billion in lending capacity that can get freed up. That is more than half of the Paulson bailout plan and it costs the taxpayer ZERO.Recently, a reader of this comment (I read all emails I receive), suggested that there is no logic in my call for a stronger US dollar. I think I have tried to demonstrate in earlier reports that in an environment of a relative shrinking global liquidity (declining US current account deficit) the US dollar should strengthen. However, I should also like to point out that in the world of investments logic should be used only very carefully....Markets can simply move in a direction that seems illogical to us.

    Take as an example the correlation between US fiscal imbalances and the US dollar. According to Deutsche Bank, there have been two regimes of correlation between US fiscal balance and the dollar: negative -0.63 during 1973-1988 and positive +0.42 since 1988, thereby supporting both views that larger deficits can result in a weaker or a stronger dollar. Similarly, the US current account deficit exploded between 1981 and 1986 and the US dollar strengthened while after 1986 the current account deficit shrank and the dollar weakened....

    But getting back to the US dollar, one reason it may perform relatively well is that although the financial news coming out of the US is horrible, financial conditions in Europe could be even worse. According to Daniel Gross, director of the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels,the crucial problem on this side of the Atlantic is that the largest European banks have become not only too big to fail, but also too big to be saved. For example, the total liabilities of Deutsche Bank (leverage ratio over 50!) amount to about €2,000bn (more than Fannie Mae) or more than 80 per cent of the gross domestic product of Germany. This is simply too much for the Bundesbank or even the German state, given that the German budget is bound by the rules of the European Union’s stability pact and the German government cannot order (unlike the US Treasury) its central bank to issue more currency. Similarly, the total liabilities of Barclays of around £1,300bn (leverage ratio 60!) are roughly equivalent to the GDP of the UK.....Concerning the US stock market we note that there are several indicators,which suggest that a bottom should be reached shortly or has already been reached.....So, whereas I find it hard to make a case for a strong bull market (new highs are almost out of the question) I could easily envision a powerful bear market rally beginning in October, which could propel the S&P 500 up between 10% and 15% and the extremely over-sold emerging markets by 20% or so.

  • #2
    Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

    Faber is making an interesting point about the size of European banks vs. their 'home' GDPs.

    However, there are at least a couple of paths leading from this point:

    1) The US bailout is really a draining of the entire world's (i.e. US, UK, and EU's) bad debt pool. Thus the US government is performing a financial guarantor function and is the good guy.

    2) The US has managed to unload a big chunk of crap securities into Europe. As the retained crap is absorbed by the government in the interest of 'market equilibrium', the UK and EU can be thrown under the bus.

    Behave and give in to US demands on NATO behavior or we won't take back our crap. US is not the good guy; financial misbehavior is forgotten with the introduction of a nice new lever to motivate allies.

    But Faber doesn't talk about China. China is the big boy in lending credit to the US.

    The dollar may strengthen vs. the euro, but it is how the dollar fares vs. the yuan and oil imports that matters.

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    • #3
      Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

      A key component in the bonar trumping deflation.

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      • #4
        Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

        I think its not just US debt that is bad, but European home-grown debt as well. Spain, Italy, UK, Ireland, France all had housing bubbles that are popping. Many of the European economies (especially Southern Europe) have been in relatively bad shape for over a decade. Germany has only just recovered, but only because they could increase export of luxury goods. European economies are not as dynamic and are saddled with tremendous social burdens and aging populations to care for. I have not seen figures on how well their pension plans are capitalized, but maybe they are not much better off than the USA?

        In any event, supposing we can clear out our financial woes, the US is in a better position to recover, because the economy can retool more rapidly for the changed global landscape of ever rising energy costs.

        Suppose:
        (1) USA relative debt burden is not that much different than its main competitors (excepting China). USA consequently does not suffer disproportionately.
        (2) Worldwide depression lasting a few years cleans out the financial system, and a new financial system emerges that is less dollar centric and forces the USA to be more fiscally responsible.
        (3) Energy costs as a relative portion of GDP grows worldwide at a much higher rate than historically.
        (4) Due to higher energy costs, production is more localized and agricultural goods also increase in cost.
        (5) New technologies & infrastructure have to be deployed to retool the economy. Future economic leadership will be determined by which country can capitalize on these trends the best.

        By this scenario, assuming we don't blow ourselves up first, the USA could emerge in 10 years looking pretty good (compared to where we are now). USA has the technology advantage, more dynamic economy, agricultural abundance, pretty good natural resources, proximity to Canadian resources, decent rail network that could quickly be updated, etc.... US citizens actually seem to be waking up to the realities right now, and might be more prepared to work hard and adjust than people think.

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        • #5
          Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

          There are some huge advantages in Europe vs US:

          1) for western europe, quality of like for 95% of people is significantly better than their peers in the states/UK. That's not saying it's GREAT: I'd rather be an oil-rich khaleeji, but as a blue-eyed kaffir, there's little shrift from Allah.;)

          2) Because there isn't such paralyzing acrimony between the classes in France and Germany (it's there, but nothing like the US), people are much more tractable with government intervention and stimulus in the markets: Siemens is a great example, winning support from the German government and bringing business to germany. Alstom and Suez collaborate with the aid of the French gov in the same way.

          3) Where I think Faber may be wrong is with the securitization: securitization has been used much, much less in Europe than in the US. People never bother to read central bank reports, but it'd help if they did! Securitization, not defaults, are the problem here!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

            That is a good question about securitization. Actually, I would think securitization helped the US offload alot of the bad debt (before they were caught naked in the middle of the party). Before the party ended, American banks had already exported the mess all over the world, whereas European banks probably made more direct loans that are going bad. We know that lending practices in the countries with the bubbles was not much better than the US.

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            • #7
              Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

              Faber gets it right. The fact that Europe has a housing bubble problem renders the Republican finger pointing of the Dems and Fannie and Freddie as BS. I actually think that Paulson, Bush, and Bernake believed this rhetoric and thought that when they would fix the problem when they took over Freddie and Fannie. That take over revealed the real problem in that the investment banks leveraged the amortirized mortgages and not just the principle. There is not enough real money in the world to deal with this. They know this. They are just praying that this buys more time for serious controlled demolition instead of collapse. This sucker is going down no matter what.

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              • #8
                Re: Faber: Europe in Worse Shape than US!

                Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                Faber gets it right. The fact that Europe has a housing bubble problem renders the Republican finger pointing of the Dems and Fannie and Freddie as BS. I actually think that Paulson, Bush, and Bernake believed this rhetoric and thought that when they would fix the problem when they took over Freddie and Fannie. That take over revealed the real problem in that the investment banks leveraged the amortirized mortgages and not just the principle. There is not enough real money in the world to deal with this. They know this. They are just praying that this buys more time for serious controlled demolition instead of collapse. This sucker is going down no matter what.
                We'll see what the next quarter's ECB FSR says.

                From last quarter:

                http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/fin...ew200806en.pdf

                Please note data on securitization.

                from page 64:
                One structural feature to be noted when
                comparing the two economic areas is that the
                functions of the
                fi nancial systems differ, in
                particular with regard to sources of
                fi nance
                for companies. In principle, there are two debt

                fi
                nancing sources available for fi rms; they can
                either borrow funds directly from lenders in

                fi
                nancial markets (market-based fi nance) or
                they can approach
                fi nancial intermediaries for
                funds. In the euro area, most of the
                fi nancing is channelled through the banking system, whereas
                in the United States market-based
                fi nance is more prominent. For instance, in terms of outstanding
                amounts, bank loans made up around 85% of the total debt of euro area
                fi rms in 2006, whereas
                only 25% of the debts of US
                fi rms consisted of bank loans.
                Keeping in mind that the euro area and US series are not entirely comparable, owing to different
                classi
                fi cations, Chart B shows fl ow data on debt fi nancing sources for the two economies in 2007.
                The chart suggests that both US and euro area
                fi rms’ reliance on loans from fi nancial institutions
                (in the United States de
                fi ned as commercial and industrial loans) increased during the credit
                market turmoil. In the euro area only a small fraction of debt
                financing was channelled through
                debt securities issuance in the latter part of 2007.
                The above-mentioned shifts in euro area and US
                fi rms’ sources of financing are closely
                intertwined with
                fi nancing costs. To this end, both bank and market-based fi nancing costs are
                examined in some detail below.



                I also anticipate the FSR from Riksbank and BOE... both of which are sehr gut.
                Last edited by phirang; October 01, 2008, 06:32 PM.

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