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Thread: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

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    Default Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Republican Congressman Fed Poe of Texas has introduced H. R. 6690, the Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, to the House of Representatives "to stimulate the economy and provide for a sound United States dollar by defining a value for the dollar, and for other purposes." The difficulty of enacting this legislation highlights the key weaknesses in the US economy today.

    The bill begins as follows.
    SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

    This Act may be cited as the ‘Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008’.

    SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

    Congress finds the following:

    (1) Article I, section 8 of the Constitution of the United States provides that the Congress shall have Power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.

    (2) Congress effectively delegated the power to regulate the value of United States money and foreign money to the Federal Reserve System via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

    (3) The value of the United States dollar has fallen dramatically relative to gold, crude oil, other real commodities and major foreign currencies.

    (4) The value of the United States dollar has become unstable and uncertain.

    (5) The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System has not produced a stable and reliable value for the United States dollar.

    (6) The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System cannot reasonably be expected to produce a stable and reliable value for the United States dollar.

    (7) An unstable dollar slows the growth of the economy by increasing the cost of capital, increasing the risks attendant to long-term capital investment, and increasing the effective rate of the corporate income tax.

    (8) An unstable dollar reduces the real earnings of American workers.

    (9) An unstable dollar reduces the real value of financial assets held by the public.

    (10) An unstable dollar reduces the real value of pension plans and retirement accounts upon which Americans depend for their security.

    (11) An unstable dollar damages the economic and political standing of the United States in the world community.

    (12) An unstable dollar gives rise to anxiety, uncertainty, and risk among the financial markets and the public.
    The good Congressman's solution? A return to the gold standard at $500 per oz.
    SEC. 3. DIRECTIVES TO THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM.

    • (a) In General- Before the end of the 90-day period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System shall make the value of the U.S. dollar equal to the market value of 0.05 of a troy ounce of gold and maintain the value of the United States dollar at this level.


      (b) Target- In regulating the value of the United States dollar, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System shall--


      • (1) conduct open market operations against an explicit target for the price of gold on the exchange operated by the Commodities Exchange, Inc (COMEX) of the New York Mercantile Exchange, Inc.; and


        (2) shall not conduct open market operations indirectly, as in the current practice of targeting the Federal Funds rate.


      (c) Promotion of Stable and Effective Financial Markets- The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System shall use the banking and bank regulatory powers of the Board to maintain and promote stable and effective financial markets during and after the transition to a defined value for the United States dollar.
    Currently dollars are valued at approximately $750 per oz. Setting the price of gold to $500 represents a 33% revaluation of the dollar against gold and, indirectly, other currencies.

    US exports will become 33% more expensive.

    As exports are the only bright spot in the US economic picture, this part of the act will have a negative impact on the US economy. The next section of the bill addresses this.
    SEC. 4. TAX DEPRECIATION.

    Effective January 1, 2008, all entities that depreciate capital assets for tax purposes shall be entitled to 100 percent expensing of all capital investment for tax purposes in the year that the investment is made.
    By allowing businesses to expense all of the depreciation of capital expenses frees up money to buy new equipment. If the stimulus is big enough, this will create an incentive for US businesses to make further capital investments. However, there is no guarantee that they will not use the tax windfall to purchase imported goods, which will be relatively cheap due to the 33% appreciation of the dollar, or use it to pay down debt or some other purpose.

    On the other hand, a return to the gold standard may create a flood of foreign investment in the world's only gold -backed currency.

    We appreciate the spirit of the legislation even if the letter of the bill leaves a lot to be desired. It's more of a statement than a serious piece of legislation.

    Hat tip to iTulip Select Premium Member, New Energy Era Expert phirang for locating the legislation.

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    Last edited by FRED; 09-11-08 at 12:04 PM.
    Ed.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    I must be missing something. The Fed is supposed to increase the value of the dollar against gold via shorting gold on the Comex??? What happens when people demand delivery? Also, the shorting itself could require printing additional dollars which is the source of the problem.

    Poe is trying to solve the problem (too many dollars) by treating one of the symptoms. This proposal seems counter to the many great ideas I've found on iTulip, but maybe I'm just confused. Not enough coffee this morning.

    Also, is the math right? Setting the dollar equal to 0.05 of an ounce of gold looks like a target of $20 per ounce.
    Last edited by Pascal; 09-11-08 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Is it April 1st already?

    Why would setting present dollars equal to gold be a good idea when so much money is owed?

    I think a better example would be:

    Government announces the issuance of a new US dollar: backed by gold currency.

    Starting April 1, 2009 - all dollars issued by the government are now backed by 0.05 oz of gold and will be called the New US Dollar (NUSD). All previous dollars and dollar obligations are considered to still be separate from the NUSD, but the NUSD will replace the previous USD over the next 10 years.

    This would be nice because Americans - being closer to the source - will receive these bucks first and push out the old crappy dollars. It will simultaneously devalue external holdings of debt while maintaining purchasing power.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Only in America can a congress rep. put such a idiotic thing on the ballot.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by c1ue View Post
    Is it April 1st already?

    Why would setting present dollars equal to gold be a good idea when so much money is owed?

    I think a better example would be:

    Government announces the issuance of a new US dollar: backed by gold currency.

    Starting April 1, 2009 - all dollars issued by the government are now backed by 0.05 oz of gold and will be called the New US Dollar (NUSD). All previous dollars and dollar obligations are considered to still be separate from the NUSD, but the NUSD will replace the previous USD over the next 10 years.

    This would be nice because Americans - being closer to the source - will receive these bucks first and push out the old crappy dollars. It will simultaneously devalue external holdings of debt while maintaining purchasing power.
    Exactly! Simultaneously default on the old dollar debts – sorry China et al! – and create a new currency of value. This is how debtors handled these situations for centuries.
    Ed.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by c1ue View Post
    Is it April 1st already?

    Why would setting present dollars equal to gold be a good idea when so much money is owed?

    I think a better example would be:

    Government announces the issuance of a new US dollar: backed by gold currency.

    Starting April 1, 2009 - all dollars issued by the government are now backed by 0.05 oz of gold and will be called the New US Dollar (NUSD). All previous dollars and dollar obligations are considered to still be separate from the NUSD, but the NUSD will replace the previous USD over the next 10 years.

    This would be nice because Americans - being closer to the source - will receive these bucks first and push out the old crappy dollars. It will simultaneously devalue external holdings of debt while maintaining purchasing power.
    This is the plan that I like!! (very similar to what RP proposes, BTW).

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    This thread reminds me...

    A brief explanation of the project to monetize the one ounce silver 'Libertad' coin.
    Hugo Salinas Price
    A presentation to the monthly meeting of the “Círculo de Estudios México” (“Circle for Mexican Studies”) on October 2, 2006, chaired by its founder, former President Miguel de la Madrid Hurtado (1982-1988)
    1. We are not the first to insist upon the monetization of the silver ounce. President José López Portillo intended to do this, in 1979; he wished to turn the silver ounce into money for an amount equivalent to its quote by the Banco de México (the Mexican Central Bank) and with that in mind he drew up the corresponding legislation which he proposed and which Congress approved in December 1979. During the space of two years, the population attempted to use this monetized silver coin as money in transactions, but the effort had to be suspended in December of 1981 for the simple reason that the legislation was defective.


    Continue...
    and

    12 de Diciembre de 2007
    Iniciativa para la LX Legislatura
    Cámara de Diputados del H. Congreso de la Unión
    INICIATIVA DE LOS DIPUTADOS JOSE ROSAS AISPURO TORRES (PRI), MARINA ARVIZU RIVAS (PASC), LUIS ENRIQUE BENITEZ OJEDA (PRI), FRANCISCO JAVIER CALZADA VÁZQUEZ (PRD), MANUEL CÁRDENAS FONSECA (PANAL), HUMBERTO DÁVILA ESQUIVEL (PANAL), DAVID FIGUEROA ORTEGA (PAN), EMILIO RAMÓN RAMIRO FLORES DOMÍNGUEZ (PAN), HORACIO GARZA GARZA (PRI), CAMERINO ELEAZAR MÁRQUEZ MADRID (PRD), ISMAEL ORDAZ JIMÉNEZ (PRI), CARLOS PUENTE SALAS (PVEM), JUAN IGNACIO SAMPERIO MONTAÑO (CDPPN) Y JOAQUIN VELA GONZÁLEZ (PT), A NOMBRE DE DIPUTADOS Y SENADORES DE DIVERSOS GRUPOS PARLAMENTARIOS, LA QUE CONTIENE PROYECTO DE DECRETO POR EL QUE SE ADICIONA EL ARTÍCULO 2° DE LA LEY MONETARIA DE LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS, PARA INSTITUCIONALIZAR LA MONEDA DE PLATA EN LA CIRCULACION MONETARIA.
    C. PRESIDENTE DE LA MESA DIRECTIVA DE LA H. CAMARA DE DIPUTADOS DE LA LX LEGISLATURA.- PRESENTE.
    Los infrascritos, integrantes de la LX Legislatura del H. Congreso de la Unión, con fundamento en lo dispuesto por los artículos 71, fracción II, de la Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos; 55, fracción II, 62 y 63 del Reglamento para el Gobierno Interior del Congreso General de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, sometemos a la consideración de esta Honorable Asamblea el presente Proyecto para adicionar, con un inciso d), el artículo 2° de la Ley Monetaria de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, a partir de la siguiente:
    EXPOSICIÓN DE MOTIVOS
    I. Introducción
    La plata, al igual que el oro, es el material que mejor cumple con las tres funciones básicas del dinero: ser medida de valor, instrumento de intercambio y reserva de riqueza, propiedades que derivan del valor intrínseco de su escasez, consistencia, calidad y resistencia a la corrosión.
    Internacionalmente, no hay otros instrumentos monetarios que se les pueda comparar. Una onza de plata pura es un bien físico aceptado en todo el mundo, no una promesa negociable de futuro, por lo que correctamente se le llama dinero “real”.
    A ello se debe que, históricamente, esas dos mercancías emergieran como dinero en la libre competencia, desplazando a los demás bienes.
    Sólo posteriormente, comenzó a utilizarse el dinero de papel, para facilitar los pagos en grandes cantidades. Pero ese papel era considerado dinero honesto y equitativo en la medida en que estaba respaldado por las cantidades correspondientes de metal precioso. Al dinero de papel se le llamó “fiduciario” porque no se trataba de monedas físicas de oro o de plata, sino de certificados que prometían la entrega de dichas monedas metálicas.
    A partir de 1944, mediante el Acuerdo de Bretton Woods, el dólar pasó a ser la moneda de reserva mundial, y los Estados Unidos se comprometieron a respaldar esos dólares con oro.
    En agosto de 1971, cuando el Gobierno de los Estados Unidos no pudo cumplir más con el compromiso de redimir sus dólares con oro, debido a la excesiva emisión de los mismos, su dinero fiduciario se convirtió en dinero fiat, que no tiene ningún respaldo, que no es redimible por cosa alguna, ni promete la entrega de algo de valor a su dueño.
    Siendo el dólar la moneda mundial de reserva, todas las monedas del mundo dejaron de representar valor intrínseco alguno, y quedaron a merced de la especulación y de la inestabilidad monetaria.
    De esta forma, se abrió la puerta a la inflación monetaria y a los colapsos bancarios, porque el poder adquisitivo del dinero fiat disminuye en razón más o menos proporcional a los billetes que se emiten y a los dígitos de saldos que se crean día con día en los bancos. Esa expansión de crédito, ilimitada e irresponsable, resta poder adquisitivo a cada unidad de dinero fiat ya existente, empobreciendo a la población con el aumento de los precios y la consecuente modificación del tipo de cambio frente al dólar. El ejemplo más cercano es el del peso mexicano, que en los últimos treinta años se ha devaluado un 89,500%, condicionando una de las principales causas de la pobreza.
    Frente a los retos de eliminar los efectos de la inflación monetaria en el poder adquisitivo de las familias, elevar los niveles de ahorro y estimular el empleo en la industria minera creando un nuevo mercado para la plata mexicana, se presenta el imperativo de ofrecer a la población una moneda real, de valor intrínseco y que no se devalúe.

    Continue...


    Would it be better to have a single currency backed by PM's and trash away fiat on a single step?

    Or having two currencies coexisting for a time, and let the population decide which is better in the long term?

    Point is that getting back to the point we were worldwide in monetary terms a century ago may not be enough. There are lots of distortions that have plagued the system in this period. Education and consciousness development has to be achieved to make this and several proposals work for the long term.

    It will be better for our future to push and obtain advances in these proposals, but on the base of a reliable and feasible development.

    Attention: Electronics Engineer Learning Economics.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Not until there is blood in the street and all that stuff will the "people" consider / demand PM based currency. Politicians and bankers are too addicted to fiat money and the freedom they get to play with it, like print it on demand, to allow this. Once there is a total lack of faith in institutions then PM money can be accepted. I think we are headed that way as the creditablility of appointed and elected officials drips away.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    [quote=ocelotl;47074]


    Would it be better to have a single currency backed by PM's and trash away fiat on a single step?

    Or having two currencies coexisting for a time, and let the population decide which is better in the long term?

    quote]

    The latter rather than the former.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    What comes around goes around. It is my understanding that the history of Gold shows that the only way to stabilise any currency over the long term is to revert to a Gold Standard. That the only way to maintain a stable currency over the long term is to maintain a Gold Standard.

    The choice is very very simple.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Another new proposal coming out of Treasury and the FRB via Congress:
    Shortened work week (think 3 days on - 4 days off) to allow for compressed failure cycles. The work week would begin on Wed! We can’t make it to Friday with the failures anymore so why not bring Friday to us all that much quicker! Also, we have the added benefit of the long weekend to cobble together these quickened bailouts!


    Brilliant!

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by pwcmba View Post
    Another new proposal coming out of Treasury and the FRB via Congress:
    Shortened work week (think 3 days on - 4 days off) to allow for compressed failure cycles. The work week would begin on Wed! We can’t make it to Friday with the failures anymore so why not bring Friday to us all that much quicker! Also, we have the added benefit of the long weekend to cobble together these quickened bailouts!


    Brilliant!
    Can you quote a Source?

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Currency instability is effect, not cause. However, this is not to say that currency instability does not then have feedback loop effect and thus show up as causal agent.

    Still, the problem lies in confusing exchange value as use value. Where markets are the dominate organizing principle in any particular society, it reflects the degree to which exchange is given value as a means to determine use, instead of the reverse.

    Gold as some contrived and neutral means of backing currency exchange is the epitome of object as fetish. Reification at its finest.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by donalds View Post
    Currency instability is effect, not cause. However, this is not to say that currency instability does not then have feedback loop effect and thus show up as causal agent.

    Still, the problem lies in confusing exchange value as use value. Where markets are the dominate organizing principle in any particular society, it reflects the degree to which exchange is given value as a means to determine use, instead of the reverse.

    Gold as some contrived and neutral means of backing currency exchange is the epitome of object as fetish. Reification at its finest.
    With the greatest of respects, you need to go read a good book about the history of Gold. What Gold does is remove the ability to create vapour ware. It is vapour ware that has destabilised the Dollar and made its use a moot point.

    Gold is not Sovereign, it is money in its finest embodiment.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by c1ue View Post
    Is it April 1st already?

    Why would setting present dollars equal to gold be a good idea when so much money is owed?

    I think a better example would be:

    Government announces the issuance of a new US dollar: backed by gold currency.

    Starting April 1, 2009 - all dollars issued by the government are now backed by 0.05 oz of gold and will be called the New US Dollar (NUSD). All previous dollars and dollar obligations are considered to still be separate from the NUSD, but the NUSD will replace the previous USD over the next 10 years.

    This would be nice because Americans - being closer to the source - will receive these bucks first and push out the old crappy dollars. It will simultaneously devalue external holdings of debt while maintaining purchasing power.
    According to Gresham's law, the new dollar (gold backed) would be good money, and therefore unable to push out the old dollar (bad money). Basically what would happen, in my opinion, is that the old dollar would be discounted more and more, until it was rendered worthless. Maybe thats the ten year time frame you are talking about.

    I definitely think that is what will happen eventually, but I think its too soon.

    Instead of calling it the new dollar, however, we should call it the Amero, and maybe we can have Canada and Mexico use it too!!



    I think its pretty interesting that we are even talking about old dollar vs. new dollar. Can you imagine 10 years ago ever trying to have even a half serious conversation about replacing "king dollar"?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by jtabeb View Post
    Can you quote a Source?
    I think he was joking, since ever Friday brings another bank failure. Kind of like moving first base back 3 feet to eliminate all the close plays!

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    WARNING: insert a large grain (maybe a rock) of salt in mouth before reading!

    Those of you who read the commentaries on kitco know it takes a lot of weeding to find the relevant information. Jim Willie has a very fatalistic writing style but he's been pretty accurate on things like the demise of Lehman, Bear, and Fannie and Freddie. Here's a couple of his latest.

    "Part of the event schedule, down the road in time, not at an early stage, is the launch of the gold-backed Russian currency and the gold-backed Gulf dinar."

    "In all likelihood the Bank For International Settlements in Basel Switzerland ordered the United States to call in USTreasurys and USAgencys, the bond instruments, the financial weapons of mass destruction."

    "The initial big move from 73 to 77 in the US$ DX index was powered by the unprecedented central bank purchase of USTBonds in July and August, as they tripled their usual volume pace. This is a vividly clear illicit market override. The latest big move from 77 to over 80 has been powered by the formal bailout of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac. To call nationalization of this cratered corrupt colossus a positive for the USDollar is like calling the death of all your children a positive since it consolidates the family fortune."

    "While all eyes are on Lehman, the big failure is likely to be Merrill Lynch. Both firms have failed to find idiots in SKorea to bail them out. The discovery phase was way too ugly, and they were too smart."

    http://www.kitco.com/ind/willie/sep112008.html

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    As per another thread i reckon you ought to have a look at his maths before working any numbers.

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanhulick View Post
    According to Gresham's law, the new dollar (gold backed) would be good money, and therefore unable to push out the old dollar (bad money).
    Exactly. Internally, fiat money would be used for all internal transactions while the gold-backed money would be hoarded (or used for international transactions).

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    Default Re: Sound Dollar and Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 proposes return to gold standard

    Jim Sinclair’s Commentary
    If the US wishes to maintain its place in the fraternity of major economic countries, a floating Federal Reserve Gold Certificate, modernized and revitalized, is the only tool. It cannot be convertible, automatic or fixed.


    HR 9966 is a joke but the above will do the job. Maybe the judge should have spoken to me before he wrote that knowledge lacking embarrassment of a piece.

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