Quote Originally Posted by lakedaemonian View Post
Back to 737.....I spoke to a multi turbine pilot not long ago.

In terms of hot rod, he mentioned that the older models with older engineers, while having less thrust, were much more responsive to throttle corrections, with high bypass turbines more laggy in power delivery in exchange for much better fuel economy.
Yes, thanks for expanding on my point. These modern engines are great when it comes to fuel economy but they're less agile. In an old school 737 where the pilot gets very certain, tactile feedback from their actions via a cable and pulley system, they also need old school, responsive engines. Modern planes with these engines use fly-by-wire, (fly by computer), systems. They're very safe and reliable. The MAX is a hot rod. Shove a bigger engine, into a more forward position, onto an older plane, but don't give the pilot fly-by-wire. Make them actually fly this bad design. It's less safe, requires more training. (they got none), and pilots hate this thing.

Quote Originally Posted by jk View Post
anyone think there's a chance the max is NEVER certified? or that passengers refuse to book flights on them if they are finally certified?
Yes, there's a chance people won't fly. I fly Southwest 4-5 times a month and after the Lion Air crash I emailed them to tell SWA that I, and my family, will never board a MAX or continue flying with them unless I understood how I could avoid this plane in the future. When the response was less than thrilling I decided to talk with my fellow frequent flyers and encouraged them to do the same. On SWA it's easy to lobby because we're all standing in line together in the A16-30 group. By early 2019 I was getting a much more supportive message. Most airlines are not SWA but should these planes ever be certified again, I think a concerted effort by their frequent flyers could keep them out of the air.

Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
The BIG selling point was the Max was a 737, any pilot whom could fly every model back to the 1967 could fly the Max with a quick cell phone update. Now the Max needs to be CERT as a new plane. Thus Boeing has "dropped" its vow that it would not require pilot training is gone, so you could go "Airbus".
This is a very key point. No new cert, no training. Hey, everyone can fly this plane. Unfortunately, not so much. The shitty MCAS computer system was a band-aid to mask the real issues. Saying it caused the crash is like blaming a driver who rear-ended a Ford Pinto for bar-b-quing it's occupants. BTW, any reference to MCAS was left out of the manual. So you've got an old school fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants 737 with a cobbled on computer system that tries to nosedive your plane every time you're climbing too fast...what could possibly go wrong.