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  • US migration within the country

    I started noticing (and commenting around these parts) that the 'urbanization' movement of kids headed to big cities had petered out and reversed in census data by 2016. That year, suburbs grew faster than urban areas again, as they have for the decades before the great recession. I'm not the only one who picked up on this. But the general media narrative hasn't caught up to reality yet.

    So I posited a very simple hypothesis: The "back to the cities" movement, especially among millenials, was a reaction to the Great Recession. Not a trend. Not a lifetime choice. Might think of it as a temporary way to ride out high unemployment near corporate HQs. Might think of it as a fun way to sow some wild outs in your 20s. The reasons are less interesting to me than the reality of where people are moving.

    And to that effect, in new data, NYC is back to losing population for the first time since before the Great Recession, led by Brooklyn. LA dropped not just in the city, but the whole of LA metro area & LA county is net down for the first time by about 10-15k people. Chicago has lost population for 4 straight years now. Cleveland's down again. Philly and Boston are not negative yet, but are slowing down. Places growing fastest are usual suspects, Dallas, Phoenix, Houston, Orlando, but also Seattle, Austin, Riverside, DC. But even in that list, for most growth is slowing compared to past years in the 2000s and 2010s.

    What's growing instead? For urban areas, weird places. Mid-size places. Think Boise City Idaho. Lakeland Florida. Midland Texas. Bend Oregon. St. George Utah. Myrtle Beach South Carolina. Greeley Colorado. Otherwise, rural and suburban areas.

    Anyways, it's a pretty dramatic trend reversal we're only a couple years into. But it seems to be accelerating. You know me. I like spotting accelerating trends early. This one has held for 3 years now. If it keeps up, there are a lot of consequences that will come from it.

    A lot of market-based neoliberal econ policy hits mid-income big city dwellers especially hard. Congestion pricing. Variable (and much higher) parking meter pricing. Sin taxes. Luxury construction & elimination or reform of rent control. Sugar taxes. Variable (and higher) fees for services like subways and busses. On and on it goes. It makes cost of living even more prohibitive, and always punishes the middle. Eventually they vote with their feet. And I think we're starting to see that.

    Funnily enough, I think the way out could be much faster than the way in too. It's generally more cost prohibitive to save up the $$$ needed to move into a high-rent big city than to move out of one to somewhere where housing is cheaper. And as cities lose population, they tend to start jacking up fees and taxes even more to cover budget shortfalls inevitable from fewer people living there, which can exacerbate the process of people moving out.

    Should be an interesting time. Might be a renaissance moment coming up for a few beleaguered smaller cities and suburbs who haven't fared so well these past 15 years.

  • #2
    Re: US migration within the country

    The biggest urban centers like NYC, Boston, Chicago, SF, LA are so expensive that normal people are priced out.

    The more remote places don't have much job opportunity, so even though housing prices are low it does not attract many people.

    That leaves the mid size cities. Columbus seems to be getting the benefit of that. Jobs continue to move in to Columbus as companies realize that lower cost-of-living equals lower payroll costs.

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    • #3
      Re: US migration within the country

      Yeah, I think that's right, at least for people trying to live a middle class lifestyle. Maybe not quite so much with Chicago. I found it surprisingly affordable when I was out there looking around last year. Could get a 2-bed condo looking directly at Wrigley Field for a price a couple earning $50k each or so could afford if they stretched. Even just 7-11 prices at the loop were more like suburban prices in the northeast than downtown prices. L was cheap too. More like Boston or NYC 20 or 30 years ago. But I'm sure they get you in other ways. Property tax rates, I believe, are much higher, maybe double. Probably adds $200/mo or so to a quarter mil unit. May be other things I'm not aware of. Nobody thinks too hard about that stuff, until they're in the market for housing, then the loan officer makes it real clear that $200k in one place and $250k in another might land you on the same monthly nut. And it's the monthlies and DTI that largely drive the owner-occupied market. But it also makes it plain that middle income people getting into the market probably should prefer higher property taxes and lower fees if they have to make the tradeoff. Once you own, swapping them out equals instant equity. Seems like smart move is to buy at the peak of an interest rate and property tax rate cycle, and ride the wave down to asset price inflation as monthly payments afford higher sticker prices. Also gotta wonder a bit whether remote work is picking up any steam. Seems like it is, even if it's only up to 3% of the workforce or so. Given that, the preference for those 4 million folks to live in lower cost areas ought to be obvious.

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      • #4
        Re: US migration within the country

        People have always flowed to where the money is flowing.

        During times of money flowing out of governments and stock markets the place to be is cities that are financial centers and government centers. Its been this way since the beginning of time. For example, observations of 1791 France - new government busy stimulating the economy after the Revolution
        "FIAT MONEY INFLATION
        A still worse outgrowth was the increase of speculation and gambling. With the plethora of paper currency in 1791 appeared the first evidences of that cancerous disease which always follows large issues of irredeemable currency,—a disease more permanently injurious to a nation than war, pestilence or famine. For at the great metropolitan centers grew a luxurious, speculative, stock-gambling body, which, like a malignant tumor, absorbed into itself the strength of the nation and sent out its cancerous fibres to the remotest hamlets. At these city centers abundant wealth seemed to be piled up: in the country at large there grew a dislike of steady labor and a contempt for moderate gains and sim- ple living. In a pamphlet published in May, 1791, we see how, in regard to this also, public opinion was blinded. The author calls attention to the increase of gambling in values of all sorts in these words: "What shall I say of the stock- jobbing, as frightful as it is scandalous, which goes on in Paris under the very eyes of our legislators,—a most ter- rible evil, yet, under the present circumstances,—neces- sary?" The author also speaks of these stock-gamblers as using the most insidious means to influence public opinion in favor of their measures;"

        Nothing new under the Sun and especially true about money-finance- and flow of people.
        This book was written by a former President of Cornell University https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com...20France_2.pdf

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        • #5
          Re: US migration within the country

          Originally posted by BK View Post
          People have always flowed to where the money is flowing.

          During times of money flowing out of governments and stock markets the place to be is cities that are financial centers and government centers. Its been this way since the beginning of time. For example, observations of 1791 France - new government busy stimulating the economy after the Revolution
          "FIAT MONEY INFLATION
          A still worse outgrowth was the increase of speculation and gambling. With the plethora of paper currency in 1791 appeared the first evidences of that cancerous disease which always follows large issues of irredeemable currency,—a disease more permanently injurious to a nation than war, pestilence or famine. For at the great metropolitan centers grew a luxurious, speculative, stock-gambling body, which, like a malignant tumor, absorbed into itself the strength of the nation and sent out its cancerous fibres to the remotest hamlets. At these city centers abundant wealth seemed to be piled up: in the country at large there grew a dislike of steady labor and a contempt for moderate gains and sim- ple living. In a pamphlet published in May, 1791, we see how, in regard to this also, public opinion was blinded. The author calls attention to the increase of gambling in values of all sorts in these words: "What shall I say of the stock- jobbing, as frightful as it is scandalous, which goes on in Paris under the very eyes of our legislators,—a most ter- rible evil, yet, under the present circumstances,—neces- sary?" The author also speaks of these stock-gamblers as using the most insidious means to influence public opinion in favor of their measures;"

          Nothing new under the Sun and especially true about money-finance- and flow of people.
          This book was written by a former President of Cornell University https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com...20France_2.pdf

          Agree there's nothing new under the sun. Government cash flows were always interesting in US history. How many billions did Sen. Byrd send to West Virginia? How many cities and towns were made by railroad and interstate investments? US system of federalism tended to keep things from getting concentrated in the capital quite the same way the tended to in UK or France.

          Doesn't mean there's not some overarching truth to what you're saying. Just seems to me a lot of the back to the cities movement was something of a 'college pt. 2' for kids who grew up in the suburbs before going off to college and graduating into the great recession. Not a permanent home of people who wanted to spend their lives in high density urban areas. Just a stopping-off point in your 20s and 30s before retreating back to suburbia or smaller cities that are easier to manage, and which afford a bit more freedom.

          Of course, I could be wrong. Just always seemed to me that a lot of the 'millennials aren't buying cars,' 'millennials aren't buying homes,' 'millennials are seeking urban nightlife,' and 'millennials aren't consuming' was more about lack of income and opportunity than preferences. More of a 'can't afford to be' than an 'aren't willing to.' I wouldn't be terribly surprised if even cable tv subscriptions see a bit of a resurgence, especially as each of the 5 remaining big media conglomerates walls off their IP and forms their own streaming services.

          For everything, there is a season.

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          • #6
            Re: US migration within the country

            I lived the Urban life post college and it was AWESOME. If you are in your twenties the last thing you want to do is go home and watch the Television. Life was about being out with folks my own age which included lots wholesome experiences which include lots of beer and weekends were about skiing.

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            • #7
              Re: US migration within the country

              Originally posted by BK View Post
              I lived the Urban life post college and it was AWESOME. If you are in your twenties the last thing you want to do is go home and watch the Television. Life was about being out with folks my own age which included lots wholesome experiences which include lots of beer and weekends were about skiing.

              Aye. I think you're onto it. But more, I think maybe for most skiing was out of reach. Like anything, it's a combo. Both fun and a way to ride out a low income period in life. I suspect that the low income part drove it a bit more than the fun part, but they both had a role.

              Once city prices become unsustainable, the fun ain't fun any more. I had a load of fun in the lower East side as a kid, now it's all luxury shops and empty storefronts. I imagine Williamsburg was similar for folks slightly younger. Eventually rents drive out fun.

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              • #8
                Re: US migration within the country

                my son was born in 1985. he's been to a LOT of weddings, and subsequently received a lot of birth announcements. it's one thing to split the rent on a 2.5 br apt among 3 guys, and another to fUnd a place for a couple with a kid or two.

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                • #9
                  Re: US migration within the country

                  Originally posted by jk View Post
                  my son was born in 1985. he's been to a LOT of weddings, and subsequently received a lot of birth announcements. it's one thing to split the rent on a 2.5 br apt among 3 guys, and another to fUnd a place for a couple with a kid or two.
                  That's the other thing. Urban schools are generally not great, more prone to the influence of capital and experimentation, and all around tougher experiences for kids than suburban schools. Once that becomes a factor, the suburbs are back on the menu. PwC predicts home ownership rates of the coming generation z (zoomers) to drop to 42%.

                  They also predict overall homeownership rates to fall to WWII levels.

                  Originally posted by Pricewaterhouse Coopers
                  Housing rental rates will surge over the long term. The sharing economy’s de-emphasis on ownership will be reflected in soaring demand for rental units. Well over half of the 12.5 million net new households created over the next decade will rent, including those who have never owned, and those making the switch from owning to renting as they age. Homeownership will decline, with the national rate anticipated to be 60.8 percent by 2025, the lowest point since the 1950s.
                  My guess is that there's a turn-around that started 3 years ago or so, and their prediction is predicated on American kids laying down and taking it and accepting that a supermajority of units built by developers will remain luxury units in perpetuity.

                  I'm betting that the "sharing economy" is going to get its clock cleaned by the political backlash that's going to keep building until some real structural change happens or otherwise the system collapses under its own weight. It's the dream that matters more than the stuff. And it's been cut right to the bone.

                  PwC also quotes:

                  Originally posted by Pricewaterhouse Coopers
                  Housing costs and availability were rated by Emerging Trends survey participants as being “considerably important” issues for real estate, increasing in importance this year when compared with the “moderate importance” given to future home prices and affordable/workforce housing in our survey a year ago. The related strain on the social fabric is getting high-level attention. As one longtime CEO of a publicly traded company said, "We’re not paying enough attention to affordable housing & I don’t mean low-income or government-subsidized. Just regular rents. No new buildings are providing that kind of product. Time will tell if that’ll come back to haunt us. Not everybody makes $75k to $100k a year."

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                  • #10
                    Re: US migration within the country

                    there's also the rising frequency of multi-generational households as solutions to family problems both economic and social. you're much less likely to pull that off downtown.

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                    • #11
                      Re: US migration within the country

                      https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...tion-drop-2001

                      I think there comes a tipping point where people just run..............
                      Mike

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                      • #12
                        Re: US migration within the country

                        Could be true in some cases.
                        This is pretty typical of tier 3 east coast cities over the last 10 years.

                        NYC grew by about 700k. It's in a tier of its own.
                        Boston & DC around same population, grew by about 100k over the last 10 years. Philly is bigger, but grew by about same 100k. That's tier 2.
                        Baltimore is about flat over the last 10 years. Same with Newark, Providence, Hartford, Worcester, Springfield, New Haven, Trenton etc. etc. There's Tier 3.

                        Like I said, the trend is turning. NYC is losing now. Emptying out. Baltimore may fall on that side too. I suspect the Tier 3s are gonna fall on one side or the other rather than be flat--some will probably empty out, others will probably grow. So I bet there's upside for some of the Tier 3 midsizers in boswash. People fleeing the the big cities gotta go somewhere. Many will just go south or west. Many more will probably do as I imagine most of those folks leaving Baltimore did and head out into a neighboring suburb. But some will look to go to a more affordable city up or down the amtrak line.

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                        • #13
                          Re: US migration within the country

                          It depends what line of work you are in.........do you need to live in a Demo-sh!t high tax/High crime Hell Hole?
                          Mike

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                          • #14
                            Re: US migration within the country

                            Eh, overblown. Mass is a mid-tax state now. Northeast has lowest murder rates in the country & it's as blue as anywhere. Murder capital is now and always has been the south. Makes for good murder ballads, though.










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                            • #15
                              Re: US migration within the country

                              Great info DC. Thank you!

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