All the nukes animated

[mooncliff]

The Cold War resulted in the US and USSR respectively nuking their own territories.
Wait until you get to the 60s and 70s. All that fallout...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

http://ploughshares.org/blog/2013-08...ting-was-worse

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

The Cold War resulted in the US and USSR respectively nuking their own territories.
Wait until you get to the 60s and 70s. All that fallout...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY

http://ploughshares.org/blog/2013-08...ting-was-worse

Until one visionary statesman broke through the Cold War orthodoxy and reached out to his enemy.

[lektrode]

Re: All the nukes animated

Until one visionary statesman broke through the Cold War orthodoxy and reached out to his enemy.

who - jimmy ? (our world famous peanut farmer)

[LorenS]

Re: All the nukes animated

JFK makes McCain and many other "leading" Republicans look like left wingers. He was a life member of the NRA, supported hard money and had the gall to ask people to try to contribute to the country instead of looking for a handout.

How times have changed.

[lektrode]

Re: All the nukes animated

JFK makes McCain and many other "leading" Republicans look like left wingers. He was a life member of the NRA, supported hard money and had the gall to ask people to try to contribute to the country instead of looking for a handout.

How times have changed.

+1
and NOT for the better.

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

who - jimmy ? (our world famous peanut farmer)

Carter signed the SALT II agreements and was the first President to win actual reductions in the total number of nuclear weapons. It would not have been possible without JFK's work getting the test ban treaty signed, as it was the first arms reduction treaty ever signed with the Sovs.

We'll never know because of his murder, but the scholarship of the last decade is pretty compelling. JFK was going to do a full court press to end the cold war starting in 1964 following his re-election. Along with the limited test ban treaty, he signed an executive order directing the agencies to cooperate with the Sovs in the moon race. He sent multiple emissaries to Cuba to begin the process of normalizing relationships with the US. And he ordered the first withdrawl of troops from Vietnam and planned a complete withdrawl starting in 1964.

So, yeah, Jimma did some good work for peace. But we had to wait another 20 years and spend trillions more on nukes and delivery systems to do what JFK planned on doing in 64.

[vt]

Re: All the nukes animated

Yes, and Jack was killed by the communists, but the left immediately tried to pin it on the right.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: All the nukes animated

Carter signed the SALT II agreements and was the first President to win actual reductions in the total number of nuclear weapons. It would not have been possible without JFK's work getting the test ban treaty signed, as it was the first arms reduction treaty ever signed with the Sovs.

We'll never know because of his murder, but the scholarship of the last decade is pretty compelling. JFK was going to do a full court press to end the cold war starting in 1964 following his re-election. Along with the limited test ban treaty, he signed an executive order directing the agencies to cooperate with the Sovs in the moon race. He sent multiple emissaries to Cuba to begin the process of normalizing relationships with the US. And he ordered the first withdrawl of troops from Vietnam and planned a complete withdrawl starting in 1964.

So, yeah, Jimma did some good work for peace. But we had to wait another 20 years and spend trillions more on nukes and delivery systems to do what JFK planned on doing in 64.

Aren't you being a BIT too kind to the Kennedy administration?

They did conduct covert/clandestine activities during his mere 3 years in office that would make some of the hawks in the Bush II/Obama administration quite jealous.

Just as many look back too fondly on the Reagan Administration I think the same applies to the Kennedy Administration don't you think?

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

Aren't you being a BIT too kind to the Kennedy administration?

Nope. That's what was happening in the weeks and months before his murder.

They did conduct covert/clandestine activities during his mere 3 years in office that would make some of the hawks in the Bush II/Obama administration quite jealous.

No doubt, but from the Bay of Pigs to the Caribbean Crisis and Vietnam, JFK was for restraint, limits and reductions in military force. He may have started a cold warrior, if the most nuanced of cold warriors, but in the end he was committed to detente, de-escalalation and peace.

Just as many look back too fondly on the Reagan Administration I think the same applies to the Kennedy Administration don't you think?

Many look fondly back on Reagan, but the two are of a radically different character. I look back at Kennedy as see what we could have been and what was lost. And its eminently clear by now that the Reaganomics brought us to ruin/glory and was the best/worst time. Just depends on where you're standing, is all

But ask yourself this, lake. What would of happened to the Reagan Revolution if say - god forbid it - Goldwater, Reagan and Bush had all met an untimely end?

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

Yes, and Jack was killed by the communists, but the left immediately tried to pin it on the right.

Okeydokey, then.

[flintlock]

Re: All the nukes animated

I look back on both and never forget they were both politicians, with all the moral compromises that always entails. People looking for heroes should not start with politicians.

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

I look back on both and never forget they were both politicians, with all the moral compromises that always entails. People looking for heroes should not start with politicians.

If you don't believe John Kennedy was genuinely heroic, you really don't know a thing about him.

[touhy]

Re: All the nukes animated

John Kennedy would be a Tea Party member now. Kennedy is to the right of every Republican candidate of the last 3 decades including Reagan.(and I mean that as a compliment..but if you want to claim him Woodsman, who am I to stop you?)

Um. Check your history. Oswald really was a Communist. (Thought your romanticized Kennedy was unfair to Cuba).

[Woodsman]

Re: All the nukes animated

John Kennedy would be a Tea Party member now. Kennedy is to the right of every Republican candidate of the last 3 decades including Reagan.(and I mean that as a compliment..but if you want to claim him Woodsman, who am I to stop you?)

Um. Check your history. Oswald really was a Communist. (Thought your romanticized Kennedy was unfair to Cuba).

Whatever floats your boat, professor. Happy new year.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: All the nukes animated

Nope. That's what was happening in the weeks and months before his murder.



No doubt, but from the Bay of Pigs to the Caribbean Crisis and Vietnam, JFK was for restraint, limits and reductions in military force. He may have started a cold warrior, if the most nuanced of cold warriors, but in the end he was committed to detente, de-escalalation and peace.



Many look fondly back on Reagan, but the two are of a radically different character. I look back at Kennedy as see what we could have been and what was lost. And its eminently clear by now that the Reaganomics brought us to ruin/glory and was the best/worst time. Just depends on where you're standing, is all

But ask yourself this, lake. What would of happened to the Reagan Revolution if say - god forbid it - Goldwater, Reagan and Bush had all met an untimely end?

I just don't know......

I think JFK represents a lot of things, including some negative.

Maybe a big chunk of the problem we face today with entrenched interests and elites is of our own doing......exemplified by many people's need to put folks on a pedestal.....especially the Kennedy Clan, even with all of the truly horrible things the family has done.

Maybe my comparison with Reagan(in terms of retrospective longing) would be better replaced with a comparison with Obama and how much people longed for what he supposedly wanted to do, "if only".

Humans seem attracted to some idolatry like moths to a flame.

Don't we typically measure a man(or woman) by what they actually DID, rather than what they WANTED TO DO?

I think if we focus on the former rather than being influenced by the latter presents a more realistic picture.