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Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

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  • Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

    That prediction was made in 2000 by a Climate change expert... off course now that technology is so much better these kind of mistakes cant happen!

    1. Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event." Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, interviewed by the UK Independent, March 20, 2000.
    Ten years later, in December 2009, London was hit by the heaviest snowfall seen in 20 years. And just last week, a snowstorm forced Heathrow airport to shut down, stranding thousands of Christmas travelers.
    A spokesman for the government-funded British Council, where Viner now works as the lead climate change expert, told FoxNews.com that climate science had improved since the prediction was made.
    2. "[By] 1995, the greenhouse effect would be desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots…[By 1996] The Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers." Michael Oppenheimer, published in "Dead Heat," St. Martin's Press, 1990.
    Oppenheimer told FoxNews.com that he was trying to illustrate one possible outcome of failing to curb emissions, not making a specific prediction. He added that the gist of his story had in fact come true, even if the events had not occurred in the U.S.
    "On the whole I would stand by these predictions -- not predictions, sorry, scenarios -- as having at least in a general way actually come true," he said. "There's been extensive drought, devastating drought, in significant parts of the world. The fraction of the world that's in drought has increased over that period."
    That may be in doubt, however. Data from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center shows that precipitation -- rain and snow -- has increased slightly over the century.
    As a special treat, Lott talks with the irrepressible doomster Paul Ehrlich who, as far as I can tell, has never been right in any of his forecasts of imminent catastrophe.
    7. "By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people ... If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000." Ehrlich, Speech at British Institute For Biology, September 1971.
    Ehrlich's prediction was taken seriously when he made it, and New Scientist magazine underscored his speech in an editorial titled "In Praise of Prophets."
    "When you predict the future, you get things wrong," Ehrlich admitted, but "how wrong is another question. I would have lost if I had had taken the bet. However, if you look closely at England, what can I tell you? They're having all kinds of problems, just like everybody else."
    8. "In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish." Ehrlich, speech during Earth Day, 1970
    "Certainly the first part of that was very largely true -- only off in time," Ehrlich told FoxNews.com. "The second part is, well -- the fish haven't washed up, but there are very large dead zones around the world, and they frequently produce considerable stench."
    "Again, not totally accurate, but I never claimed to predict the future with full accuracy," he said
    http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/30/cr...ball-environme

  • #2
    Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

    Originally posted by tsetsefly View Post
    That prediction was made in 2000 by a Climate change expert... off course now that technology is so much better these kind of mistakes cant happen!

    http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/30/cr...ball-environme
    uh huh - its simply amazing what gets reported/accepted as factual by the lamestream media these daze!

    tell this to the residents who live at: http://www.mammothmountain.com/ who just saw upwards of 17 FEET of it last week!
    Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event." Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, interviewed by the UK Independent, March 20, 2000.

    sounds just like the predictions made in pennsylvania in the 1850's: we'd run out of oil in what? 20 years?
    (not that i doubt the implications of peak-cheap-oil...)

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    • #3
      Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

      Originally posted by tsetsefly View Post
      That prediction was made in 2000 by a Climate change expert... off course now that technology is so much better these kind of mistakes cant happen!



      http://reason.com/blog/2010/12/30/cr...ball-environme
      silly people. don't they realize that we can dump unlimited amounts of man made chemicals into the atmosphere with no consequence whatsoever?

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      • #4
        Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

        Originally posted by blazespinnaker View Post
        silly people. don't they realize that we can dump unlimited amounts of man made chemicals into the atmosphere with no consequence whatsoever?
        Yes, there are consequences to dumping carbon-dioxide into the atmosphere: a.) plants grow better; and b.) plants make more oxygen because there are more plants growing faster.

        And there are consequences to dust and smoke in the atmosphere: a.) clouds form and reflect -out incoming sunlight from the Sun; b.) particulates precipitate-out moisture and might even increase rainfall.

        All this nasty stuff has been happening for millenia, and the Earth is doing just fine. Thank you.

        With more cloud-cover from dust and smoke in the atmosphere, the Earth MIGHT be having warmer nights, but also slightly cooler days. That trend would be helpful to plants growing, too.

        The whole Al Gore hypothesis of run-away global-warming caused by mankind is absurd. The more questions you ask, the more the entire AGW thesis falls-apart.

        Last edited by Starving Steve; January 01, 2011, 11:02 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

          Originally posted by BS
          silly people. don't they realize that we can dump unlimited amounts of man made chemicals into the atmosphere with no consequence whatsoever?
          Yep, that fossil fuel derived CO2 is completely different than all that 'natural' CO2. That extra 1 CO2 molecule mixed in with every 10,000+ existing molecules in the atmosphere makes all the difference.

          But somehow damming rivers, agricultural irrigation, watering lawns/Los Angeles - that's all natural. Why aren't we also complaining about all those extra dihydrogen monoxide molecules in the atmosphere due to human interference.

          I say that we should take a stand NOW, for our children's sake!

          Consider all those hapless desert creatures being devastated by the impact of man made dihydrogen monoxide! The cactus! The gila monster! The scorpion! The owl!

          An a more amusing note - check out the Time magazine coverage of climate hysteria posted in Climate Change.

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          • #6
            Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

            Yes he said that.

            But what I said 20 years ago, is that the ocean and atmospheric patterns can snap into a new pattern in a single year. This has happened many times in the past.
            Since human settlement has adapted to the weather patterns common in the last century, a sudden shift would render huge amounts of infrastructure useless.

            And how do you know it wouldn't do something really nasty like trigger another dust bowl?

            The jetstream usually runs north of the UK, but is now running to the south for the last three years, so the UK is trapped in an arctic airmass.
            This seems to fortunately be refreezing Siberia, stopping methane release from the permafrost.

            The carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has increased from 320 parts per million to 390 ppm, a 20% increase in 50 years.
            http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

            It is a fact that the ice sheet over the Arctic Ocean has rapidly melted and the albedo and evaporation at the surface of the ocean has changed drastically. Essentially, the part that is ice free in the summer has gone from being completely white to completely black.

            Last summer was the hottest summer in Japan in 113 years.

            "For the 2010 year-to-date (January–November), the combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 0.64°C (1.15°F) above the 20th century average—the warmest such period since records began in 1880."
            http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/

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            • #7
              Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

              Please observe the temperature trend at San Francisco International Airport. I don't see much change in the trend this past fall. Please select your own airport, and observe graphs of the daily temperature trend......... The drunk keeps stumbling around the lamp-post, never wandering far from it.

              We had a record high temperature recorded in Los Angeles early this fall. Would anyone want to observe the temperature trend at LA Int'l Airport now? San Diego? SF? Minneapolis-St.Paul? Central Park in New York City? South Florida's climate stations? How is the snow-pack coming along in Europe and the UK? (I'm just asking and wondering.)

              NOAA's own daily temperature observations and graphs are the strongest evidence against their maps and models. And the sea-level is not rising...... And the record cold? And the snow-cover in Europe and North America? In climatology, the observations speak louder than the models because the observations can not be altered, but the computer models can be calibrated any which way to produce whatever results you desire or need.

              Anyone observing drowning polar-bears?
              Last edited by Starving Steve; January 02, 2011, 03:49 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                Originally posted by mooncliff
                But what I said 20 years ago, is that the ocean and atmospheric patterns can snap into a new pattern in a single year. This has happened many times in the past.
                Since human settlement has adapted to the weather patterns common in the last century, a sudden shift would render huge amounts of infrastructure useless.
                I do think it is funny that you mention all the events in the past - and I doubt that these events were due to human caused CO2, or even CO2 from any other source.

                Originally posted by mooncliff
                The carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has increased from 320 parts per million to 390 ppm, a 20% increase in 50 years.
                http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
                As I've noted many times - historically the Earth has had millenia with higher CO2 levels than today.

                10 times higher. And yet no earth ending climate disaster occurred.

                Secondly I note the parts per million. As I noted above, it is still extremely unclear why 1 extra fossil fuel derived CO2 molecule in the atmosphere per 10000 other molecules = 100 parts per million increase makes any difference whatsoever.

                Originally posted by mooncliff
                It is a fact that the ice sheet over the Arctic Ocean has rapidly melted and the albedo and evaporation at the surface of the ocean has changed drastically. Essentially, the part that is ice free in the summer has gone from being completely white to completely black.
                This meme has been thoroughly discredited. It has been beaten to death - for one thing Arctic high temperatures are not increasing at all, nor are the yearly low temperatures increasing.

                If CO2 is supposed to have an effect, there should be both extremes changing - in fact neither is.

                Lastly it has been conclusively shown that there are far higher order impacts from wind patterns blowing in/out of the Arctic; these patterns clearly change regularly as it has also been conclusively shown that the Arctic - even in the past 100 years - has had regular periods of being relatively ice-free.

                Once again, why is it 'different this time'?

                Originally posted by mooncliff
                Last summer was the hottest summer in Japan in 113 years.
                And there are record lows being set in the US, in the UK, in many other parts of the world.

                Why is it when it is hot, it is a sign of global warming. But when it is cold, it is also a sign of global warming.

                Originally posted by mooncliff
                "For the 2010 year-to-date (January–November), the combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 0.64°C (1.15°F) above the 20th century average—the warmest such period since records began in 1880."
                Another meme that is being beaten to death. For one thing, there was a mini Ice Age just 400 years ago.

                For another thing, most sampling is done near where people live. And all of those places are either staying steady in population or are increasing. This is a clear bias towards greater urban heat islands, which in turn could easily skew the record. As a resident of Tokyo - surely you've noticed that the snow that rarely falls and even more rarely sticks in central Tokyo behaves much differently even a 30 minute train ride away?

                Again, I'm not saying there is no impact of human produced CO2 - the question is just how much this impact is and what difference does mitigating it accomplish given the myriad other factors like urbanization, changes in the water cycle, vegetation changes (from forest/grasslands to farmlands), heat from 6 billion humans walking/talking/breathing on Earth, etc etc.

                From what I see - and what I continue to see - the assertion that 'Its different this time' with CO2 is still extremely unclear, even as its proponents continue to seek power and self enrichment.

                This mix does not build confidence in either motives nor methods.
                Last edited by c1ue; January 02, 2011, 04:44 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                  Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                  ... How is the snow-pack coming along in Europe and the UK? (I'm just asking and wondering.)
                  they seem to be doing ok (not quite as good as mammoth tho...)

                  http://www.onthesnow.com/switzerland/skireport.html

                  http://www.onthesnow.com/italy/skireport.html

                  http://www.onthesnow.com/austria/skireport.html

                  http://www.onthesnow.com/france/skireport.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                    From the National Weather Service Office at San Diego, California on Jan 2, 2011: a winter weather advisory for the high desert including Twenty-nine Palms, California, Victorville, Cal, Palmdale, Cal, Hesperia, Cal, Lancaster, Cal, Edwards AFB, Cal. and locations in the Mojave Desert above 2300 feet, one to three inches of snow expected during the afternoon and evening of Jan 2nd, making travel difficult on roads.

                    6PM PST temperatures observed in Southern California: University of California at Los Angeles in downtown LA 41F (5C) with rain; Edwards AFB 34F (1C); Lancaster, Cal. snowing with 31F (-0.5C); Palmdale, Cal. light snow with 30F (-1C) and fog.

                    Road-conditions may deteriorate during the night, and be much worse in the mountains of Southern California.

                    And these are the actual air temps, NOT WIND-CHILL nonsense. These are already being recorded by the National Weather Service in the United States.

                    From the NWS at Los Angeles, issued 8PM PST Jan 2nd, 2011: Winter weather warning for the Santa Clarita Valley and the Antelope Valley, including the LA suburbs of Newhall and Valencia, for snow down to 1000 feet above sea-level, and for accumulations of one-inch on the valley floors. Snow down to 800 feet above sea-level in snow-squals and down-pours.

                    Last edited by Starving Steve; January 03, 2011, 01:35 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                      Bubbles are not just a financial phenomena. Take a real observable trend. Mix in a sexy narrative. Pattern match on anything that reenforces that narrative and makes it sexier and encourages available resources for further study . For a faster rise add government subsidized experts to study, comment, and model the observable trend to excite new-comers to the subject. Rinse and repeat.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                        Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                        Bubbles are not just a financial phenomena. Take a real observable trend. Mix in a sexy narrative. Pattern match on anything that reenforces that narrative and makes it sexier and encourages available resources for further study . For a faster rise add government subsidized experts to study, comment, and model the observable trend to excite new-comers to the subject. Rinse and repeat.
                        Group-think (also called, "convergent-thinking" or "being a team-player") is very much a part of human nature. One can find bubbles in economics, fads in science, religious experiences with crowds and congregations, and even trace group-think in the way people communicate with language.

                        Nazism was very much about controlling crowds and whipping them into hysteria. Even communism was about controlling what people (in the masses) were to think.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                          From the National Weather Service Office at Oxnard, California, issued 10:35AM PST Jan 3, 2011: estimated 8 inches of snow on the ground at Palmdale, California. This is a preliminary storm report.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                            Originally posted by SS
                            From the National Weather Service Office at Oxnard, California, issued 10:35AM PST Jan 3, 2011: estimated 8 inches of snow on the ground at Palmdale, California. This is a preliminary storm report.
                            Now now Steve, that's weather not climate.

                            It is only climate when it is inconvenient...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Within a few years "children just aren't going to know what snow is." Snowfall will be "a very rare and exciting event."

                              Global warming? Global warming? Now this wouldn't be some kind of scam would it to enable governments/financiers to "tax" all economic activity would it?

                              Of course, there are those who think that we are entering a 30 year cooling period:



                              And then we also have this: http://thenew1776.com/?p=580

                              Global warming proponents are cooked... Speaking as someone who used to be one, I figured out the scam around the time of Climategate. Of course, I'm sure Al Gore really, really believes in this nonsense which is the reason why he's buying beach front homes in California.

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