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  • A question about gold in Belgium

    Dear fellow iTuliper,

    I am considering moving with my family to another country, for two or three years. I am currently considering Belgium (Brussels to be more precise). If I move there I intend to become fiscally resident in Belgium.

    I would like to ask to any belgian kind enough to answer if the profits from the sale of gold are taxed in Belgium (capital gains, VAT on the sale, etc). I currently hold my gold in Switzerland.

    If some day you need to know something about Spain and gold perhaps I can help you

    Thank you.

    Alvaro

  • #2
    Re: A question about gold in Belgium

    I have no answer for your question, but best of luck to you all with your move. May it be totally uneventful.

    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A question about gold in Belgium

      Originally posted by Alvaro Spain View Post
      Dear fellow iTuliper,

      I am considering moving with my family to another country, for two or three years. I am currently considering Belgium (Brussels to be more precise). If I move there I intend to become fiscally resident in Belgium.

      I would like to ask to any belgian kind enough to answer if the profits from the sale of gold are taxed in Belgium (capital gains, VAT on the sale, etc). I currently hold my gold in Switzerland.

      If some day you need to know something about Spain and gold perhaps I can help you

      Thank you.

      Alvaro
      I'm also interested in this info. If anybody has the inside track on tax info please post here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A question about gold in Belgium

        I found this:
        https://fr.goldbroker.com/fiscalite-...se-europe.html

        Sorry about the big space down to the table. It is a problem with the blog software.


        Fiscalité appliquée à l'or et l'argent métal :


        Fiscalité appliquée à l'or et l'argent métal si vous êtes résident dans les pays suivants :






































































































        PAYS DE RESIDENCE

                                OR                              

        ARGENT

        NOTE

        ACHAT                                  

        VENTE


        ACHAT 



        * Goldbroker stocke l'argent en zone franche > Exonération de TVA



        VENTE

        FRANCE

        0


        8% Taxe sur les métaux précieux



        TVA 19,6 %


        8% Taxe sur les métaux précieux



        Les métaux précieux entrent dans la déclaration d'ISF.

        La taxe sur la PV abattement de 10 % par an dès la 3ème année de détention

        34,5 % Taxe sur la plus-value

        34,5 % Taxe sur la plus-value

        BELGIQUE

        0

        0

        0

        TVA 21 %

         

        SUISSE

        0

        0

        TVA 6 %

        0

        Les métaux précieux entrent

        dans la déclaration d'ISF

        ITALIE

        0


        Sociétés > 6 % Taxe sur la plus-value



        Investisseurs privés > 12,5% Taxe sur la plus-value



        TVA 21 %


        Sociétés > 6 % Taxe sur la plus-value



        Investisseurs privés > 12,5% Taxe sur la plus-value



         

        UK

        0

        18 % Capital Gains Tax

        ou taxe sur la plus-value


         

        TVA 17,50%

        18 % Capital Gains Tax

        ou taxe sur la plus-value


         

        Le CGT ne s'applique que

        sur les lingots et les pièces

        n'ayant pas légalement de cours

        IRLANDE

        0

        25 % Capital Gains Tax

        ou taxe sur la plus-value

        TVA 21%

        25 % Capital Gains Tax

        ou taxe sur la plus-value

         

        ESPAGNE

        0

        20 % taxe sur la plus-value

        TVA 16 %

         

        Le taux peut légèrement

        varier d'une région à l'autre

        ALLEMAGNE

        0

        0


        TVA 19 % pour les lingots



        TVA 7% pour les pièces



        0

         

        CANADA

        0

        Capital Gains Tax :

        abattement de 50% des la 1ere année de détention. Les 50% restant devront être inclus dans la déclaration d'impôt sur le revenu

        0

        Capital Gains Tax :

        abattement de 50% des la 1ere année de détention. Les 50% restant devront être inclus dans la déclaration d'impôt sur le revenu

        Plus d'infos sur le site de l'Agence du revenu du Canada

        USA

        0

        28 % Capital Gains Tax 

        0

        28 % Capital Gains Tax 


        L'or et l'argent sont considérés comme des "collectibles" > Plus d'infos



         


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A question about gold in Belgium

          I also found this site helpful for French taxes:
          http://www.loretlargent.info/guides/...es-pieces-dor/
          I know you don't plan on living in France, but note that it disagrees with the above table on french taxes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A question about gold in Belgium

            Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post
            I also found this site helpful for French taxes:
            http://www.loretlargent.info/guides/...es-pieces-dor/
            I know you don't plan on living in France, but note that it disagrees with the above table on french taxes.
            Thank your for your postings.

            Before asking my question, I had seen that, in the gold related sites, it is said that you don't have to pay taxes in Belgium for the profits from the sale of gold.

            The problem is that, perhaps, this info could be wrong because they can sell gold more easily if they say that there are not taxes. I don't say necessarily that they are wrong but I need a source more trustworthy.

            Before asking an international lawyer (something that I will have to do anyway if/when I decide where to move, along with many other questions), I thought that any belgian who had bought gold should know precisely the answer to my doubt.

            By the way, I thought that you were an american living in the south of France and I supposed that taxes in Belgium wouldn't affect you because (I believe) USA people are taxed in USA regardless where they live.
            Last edited by Alvaro Spain; 09-11-12, 07:06 AM. Reason: spelling

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A question about gold in Belgium

              Originally posted by Alvaro Spain View Post

              By the way, I thought that you were an American living in the south of France and I supposed that taxes in Belgium wouldn't affect you because (I believe) USA people are taxed in USA regardless where they live.
              Partially correct. I pay BOTH French and American taxes as a dual national. There are some exceptions, but not for gold.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                Originally posted by Alvaro Spain View Post
                Dear fellow iTuliper,

                I am considering moving with my family to another country, for two or three years. I am currently considering Belgium (Brussels to be more precise). If I move there I intend to become fiscally resident in Belgium.

                I would like to ask to any belgian kind enough to answer if the profits from the sale of gold are taxed in Belgium (capital gains, VAT on the sale, etc). I currently hold my gold in Switzerland.

                If some day you need to know something about Spain and gold perhaps I can help you

                Thank you.

                Alvaro
                WHY would you sell your gold?

                Move it to safe storage somewhere else if you do not trust Switzerland.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                  Originally posted by doom&gloom View Post
                  WHY would you sell your gold?

                  Move it to safe storage somewhere else if you do not trust Switzerland.
                  Taxes in Spain are becoming impossibly high. We also have a tax on wealth, even if you don't have any income.

                  My wife and me work very little right now. Due to our crisis I have lost over 75% of my customers. I was once a technology entrepreneur, but after selling my company I recycled myself as a physical therapist. My small private practice has collapsed. So, we have little to do, two little boys, and we have most of our money in gold.

                  We expect having to sell it in two to three years. My country is going worse and worse. We might as well be travelling through the world, visiting nice countries and having interesting experiences.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                    Then you might just as well sell it in small quantities as cash is needed, and perhaps to private parties and away from the spanish tax man?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                      Originally posted by doom&gloom View Post
                      Then you might just as well sell it in small quantities as cash is needed, and perhaps to private parties and away from the spanish tax man?
                      I find the tax on wealth to be utterly unjust and a curse. Even if I have no income at all I have to pay up to 2.5% of my total wealth (actually my particular type is not that high but I prefer not to tell exactly what I have to pay).

                      My reason to sell gold is that I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the maximum profit from the sale will be made in two or three years time. I expect gold to reach 2,500 euros. I bought it at 773. The tax that I'll have to pay will be huge.

                      By the way, my gold is legally held and declared. My bank in Switzerland will probably tell the tax man what I am doing in my account.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                        Originally posted by Alvaro Spain View Post
                        I find the tax on wealth to be utterly unjust and a curse. Even if I have no income at all I have to pay up to 2.5% of my total wealth (actually my particular type is not that high but I prefer not to tell exactly what I have to pay).

                        My reason to sell gold is that I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the maximum profit from the sale will be made in two or three years time. I expect gold to reach 2,500 euros. I bought it at 773. The tax that I'll have to pay will be huge.

                        By the way, my gold is legally held and declared. My bank in Switzerland will probably tell the tax man what I am doing in my account.
                        Alvaro, there are banksters in the Eu who are counting on your wealth tax to pay them back for the money they printed out of thin air and loaned to your country. Be a good little serf and do as they say, because some fat cat is depending on you for his Med vacation. *sarcasm*

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                          Originally posted by Alvaro Spain View Post
                          I find the tax on wealth to be utterly unjust and a curse. Even if I have no income at all I have to pay up to 2.5% of my total wealth
                          You know, I have mixed feelings about this. One the one hand I feel strongly that we as a nation need to collect taxes in order to fund necessary social services. In France we have the best medical system in the world. The taxes we have to pay are extraordinarily high. I think this is reasonable and just. We are on the whole getting a terrific deal for the money. I also feel that tax should fall disproportionately on those with the ability to pay. This is what the wealth tax is all about. If any tax is unfair it is the income tax. Income tax hits anybody with a high "throughput" much harder than a wealth tax would. A lawyer that has to pay a staff and rent an office can have an extraordinarily high income, but a very low wealth ( as most of his "pay" will go to employees and rent and so forth).

                          On the other hand, these types of progressive taxes are having the effect of driving guys like Alvaro out of their native countries.

                          Let's check the relative tax tax rates on your income.
                          from here i see that if you have ( for example. THESE ARE NOT REAL NUMBERS):
                          2 674 000 euros on 1/1/2011 all in gold
                          end of year
                          3 115 414 euros on 1/1/2012
                          you owe:
                          1.7% or 52 962 in wealth tax.
                          you effective income tax rate for that year is( if you have no other source of income):
                          52962/441414 = 12%

                          you are paying in effect 12% income tax instead of 35% to 40% which is what I payed in the US. In reality, I was paying a good bit more because of FICA tax.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Best healthcare: not in Europe!

                            In France we have the best medical system in the world. The taxes we have to pay are extraordinarily high. I think this is reasonable and just.
                            I say Hong Kong has the best medical system in the world. Their taxes are far lower than france and their public health just as good. About 10 years ago the economist had a "scatter chart" of european health care, with cost being the X-axis and public health being the Y-axis. There was virtually no correlation. You do not get better care by spending more on medicine. Look at the US !

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A question about gold in Belgium

                              I have been today with an international lawyer. I hope to have soon the answer to the taxes on gold profits in Belgium, and will make the info available to you.

                              In Spain you have:

                              Wealth tax: 1.7% of your wealth (even with no income)
                              Capital gains tax: 27% of the profit. In the example that you have set up, you forgot to take into account that when you sell your gold you pay 27% (more or less like in USA). You cannot deduct the wealth tax that you have payed for having this gold (in contrast to the system in the Netherlands, where you just pay the wealth tax and there are no capital gains.)
                              Today they have just changed the law. Capital gains for profits made on less than a year: 56%
                              Income tax: 56% (thats not a typo)
                              VAT: 21%

                              Plus: property taxes, taxes on gas higher than almost any other country, "green" taxes, and many more that I don't want to tell because you could get a depression.

                              And what do we get in return? Come to live in Spain and you'll see by yourself.
                              Last edited by Alvaro Spain; 09-12-12, 09:29 AM. Reason: spelling

                              Comment

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