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  • US mint suspends gold coin sales?

    Got this from la metropole via an email (not from their pay site, so should be okay to post)

    Le Metropole Members,

    U.S. mint suspends gold coin sales; futures price is a fiction

    Submitted by cpowell on 09:27PM ET Thursday, August 14, 2008. Section: Daily Dispatches
    12:25a ET Friday, August 15, 2008

    Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

    The U.S. Mint has suspended sales of American Eagle gold coins and is refusing orders from dealers, two coin and bullion dealers confirmed Thursday.

    The mint's suspension of gold coin sales follows its tight rationing of sales of silver eagle coins, begun in May, when sales to the public were terminated and sales to the mint's 13 authorized dealers were tightly limited.

    Word of the mint's suspension of gold coin sales came from the American Precious Metals Exchange in Edmond, Oklahoma, (http://apmexdealer.blogspot.com/2008/08/news-alert-us-mint-suspends-sales-of.html) and from Centennial Precious Metals in Denver, Colorado.

    The suspension is overwhelming evidence that the futures contract price of gold on the commodities exchanges is substantially below the physical market price and that, indeed, the commodities exchanges are being used as GATA long has maintained -- as part of a massive scheme of manipulation of the precious metals, currency, and bond markets.

    Michael Kosares, proprietor of Centennial Precious Metals and host of its Internet bulletin board, the USAGold Forum (http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/), explained Thursday:

    "The U.S. Mint buys direct from the refiners, and this suspension of gold eagle sales may be an indication that the supply line is already backing up, or that the mint expects that it will back up for the rest of the year. I wonder who would give up physical metal at these prices and under these circumstances except distressed sellers. The central banks are in a hunker-down mode as far as I can determine, and it's the mines that supply the refiners. So if the mint, which buys from the refiners, is having a difficult time locating metal, what does that tell you? I keep saying that we may get a surprising rubber-band effect later in the year when the pre-holiday/festival season kicks off in September/October. It may happen sooner. One of our indicators of approaching a bottom in gold is how many calls Centennial Precious Metals gets from our U.S.-based Indian clientele. Here's a quote from my office's report to me at the end of the day today: 'Today was a good day. ... There must have been an Indian convention where someone was handing out USAGold business cards.' That may give you a clue as to thinking in India proper and probably the rest of the Asian rim."

    That is, through their agents the bullion banks the Western central banks, desperate to prop up a corrupt and totteringt financial system, have put gold so much on sale that even the U.S. Mint can't find any now. The price reported from the commodities markets is a fiction -- a scary one, perhaps, but a fiction no less.

    You can strike a blow at the market riggers who are defrauding the world -- just buy a little real metal. The dealers listed at the bottom right of this dispatch will be glad to help you do it.

    CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
    Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

    * * *

  • #2
    Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

    this raises several questions

    is it correct? (are the prices on the futures markets a complete fiction, highly skewed by one or more of
    1. massive shorting
    2. derivatives games
    3. market regulators looking the other way
    4. monetary regulators doing some manipulations themselves
    5. monetary regulators egging on market participants to pile on

    if so, are these always non-specific "they" buying time for something to save their butts (something that would naturally reduce the price of Gold & Silver and thus let them get out of the shorts easily)? Are "they" just hoping to shake out the weak hands to buy back the shorts, and let them get on the long side,

    OR

    will the current actions bury them even deeper - in the case of Silver especially, will the above ground invisible supply be further eroded (it kept being eroded, or in other words, the Silver deficit kept being supplied for 20 years) as it was eroded for 20 years at less than $5 per ounce?

    Aaron Krowne reported that the price of Silver extraction from ground to sale (he didn't report what qualifies as the "sale" endpoint) is ~ $17 per ounce ... shouldn't a mine or 2 be shutting down if we're at this price for a month or more?


    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Got this from la metropole via an email (not from their pay site, so should be okay to post)

    Le Metropole Members,

    U.S. mint suspends gold coin sales; futures price is a fiction

    Submitted by cpowell on 09:27PM ET Thursday, August 14, 2008. Section: Daily Dispatches
    12:25a ET Friday, August 15, 2008

    Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

    The U.S. Mint has suspended sales of American Eagle gold coins and is refusing orders from dealers, two coin and bullion dealers confirmed Thursday.

    * * *

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      this raises several questions

      is it correct? (are the prices on the futures markets a complete fiction, highly skewed by one or more of
      1. massive shorting
      2. derivatives games
      3. market regulators looking the other way
      4. monetary regulators doing some manipulations themselves
      5. monetary regulators egging on market participants to pile on

      if so, are these always non-specific "they" buying time for something to save their butts (something that would naturally reduce the price of Gold & Silver and thus let them get out of the shorts easily)? Are "they" just hoping to shake out the weak hands to buy back the shorts, and let them get on the long side,

      OR

      will the current actions bury them even deeper - in the case of Silver especially, will the above ground invisible supply be further eroded (it kept being eroded, or in other words, the Silver deficit kept being supplied for 20 years) as it was eroded for 20 years at less than $5 per ounce?

      Aaron Krowne reported that the price of Silver extraction from ground to sale (he didn't report what qualifies as the "sale" endpoint) is ~ $17 per ounce ... shouldn't a mine or 2 be shutting down if we're at this price for a month or more?
      I think we are seeing something akin to just what you refer to, a decoupling of the physical and paper/electronic markets. One the supply is LIMITED, the other is not.

      Here is a notice from bulliondirect. I've seen the same thing at kitco, in coin stores, you name it. Not just in my area. Went home to Oregon for vacation and saw the same thing.

      All I'm saying is that strange behavior is occuring (just like when Nixion tried the second round of price controls, shortages resulted). Me thinks we are seeing the same mechanism at play presently.


      Welcome to Bullion Direct!Sunday, August 17, 2008
      High Activity Market Alert
      The precious metals industry is experiencing a substantial surge in activity which may increase the possibility of logistical delays; including customer service response time, product processing (incoming and outgoing), and product transport/fulfillment.

      Certain silver products are delayed as much as 2-4 weeks. Please review Catalog descriptions for notices regarding such delays.

      We are working diligently to fulfill all orders in a timely fashion while maintaining competitive prices.

      We appreciate your patience and understanding.
      The Bullion Direct Team

      Also just look at the prices the mint is charging, these are insane considering the spot price

      for example:



      2008 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin (Z8F)

      Price: $25.95 More Info.




      2008 American Eagle One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin (Z8A)

      Price: $1,119.95 More Info.


      2008 American Buffalo One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin (BV8)

      Price: $1,059.95 More Info.



      Kind of reminds me of this quote in action
      Voltaire (1694-1778). “Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value ---- zero.”
      Last edited by jtabeb; August 17, 2008, 09:33 AM. Reason: examples

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

        See all the issues on Naked Short Selling -- "Wall Street: Crime of the Century" --I do not know how many people take physical delivery of their gold -- but it is quite possible that a vast majority don't -- in that case, a "Failure To Deliver" problem coupled with greed may well take over -- this FTD problem could also be used by the "Powers that Be" to manipulate the markets

        Bart and I had a good discussion of this in the above linked thread.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

          yet another reason why it's smart to buy au $20 libs instead of bullion... much lower price volatility...

          maybe that's what the rising spread between bullion and au libs has been telling us?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

            The US Mint represents fabrication demand side for raw gold. If they truly suspended production of gold coins and reduced the fabrication demand for raw material, then gold refirners and gold producers must turn to the market to sell their gold.

            My local pawn shop owner friend has told me that local refiners in Vancouver got stuck with excess inventory after run-up to $1000/oz in March, which somewhat supports the story.

            It does look like a clever attempt of the US government to manipulate the price of gold, but what do I know? The last time US Mint announced suspension of gold coin sales was in October 2007, which followed by a gold rush to $1000/oz.

            The key to this is what warehousemen (central banks and bullion dealers) are doing? They should be buying and stocking metal in the warehouse If there is indeed disconnect between cash price and paper price.

            I monitor a number of indicators such as gold/silver, djia/gold, wtic/gold and gold/hui. All of them, especially gold/silver, resolve that there is a panic selling based on previous instances since 2001. This evidence and iTulip's Small Trade Within Big Trade target of $780/oz suggest that we are at the significant bottom. It is time to back up the truck for me.

            Igor

            indu_gold.png

            gold_wtic.png

            gold_silver.png

            Gold/Hui is particularly significant. The ratio has never been higher that this.
            gold_hui.png

            Zeal has published a good article on Friday, indicating extreme panic selling and undervaluation of the gold stocks to the metal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

              Originally posted by idianov View Post
              The US Mint represents fabrication demand side for raw gold. If they truly suspended production of gold coins and reduced the fabrication demand for raw material, then gold refirners and gold producers must turn to the market to sell their gold.

              My local pawn shop owner friend has told me that local refiners in Vancouver got stuck with excess inventory after run-up to $1000/oz in March, which somewhat supports the story.

              It does look like a clever attempt of the US government to manipulate the price of gold, but what do I know? The last time US Mint announced suspension of gold coin sales was in October 2007, which followed by a gold rush to $1000/oz.

              The key to this is what warehousemen (central banks and bullion dealers) are doing? They should be buying and stocking metal in the warehouse If there is indeed disconnect between cash price and paper price.

              I monitor a number of indicators such as gold/silver, djia/gold, wtic/gold and gold/hui. All of them, especially gold/silver, resolve that there is a panic selling based on previous instances since 2001. This evidence and iTulip's Small Trade Within Big Trade target of $780/oz suggest that we are at the significant bottom. It is time to back up the truck for me.

              Igor

              [ATTACH]504[/ATTACH]

              [ATTACH]505[/ATTACH]

              [ATTACH]506[/ATTACH]

              Gold/Hui is particularly significant. The ratio has never been higher that this.
              [ATTACH]507[/ATTACH]

              Zeal has published a good article on Friday, indicating extreme panic selling and undervaluation of the gold stocks to the metal.

              Lookie, lookie!


              August 15, 2008
              Change
              1 m -2.2986% -2.4625
              2 m -2.4086% -2.6825
              3 m -2.5086% -2.8422
              6 m -2.5786% -3.1057
              1 y -2.6914% -3.2405

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                Yes, and the converse of this is - in the ensuing snap back rally in gold you will most definitely want to see the HUI outperform the bullion. If not, you will see yet lower lows thereafter, and at the price level we're at, "lower lows"mean a sizeble further drop. The signals emanating from the upcoming snap back rally will be high stakes poker for the past six - seven year bull. I lean toward thinking the $780 gold will have been one of EJ's most unerring calls. But watch the HUI performance on the snapback rally!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                  Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
                  Lookie, lookie!


                  August 15, 2008
                  Change
                  1 m -2.2986% -2.4625
                  2 m -2.4086% -2.6825
                  3 m -2.5086% -2.8422
                  6 m -2.5786% -3.1057
                  1 y -2.6914% -3.2405
                  Thanks for noting, jtabeb. I checked other sources for PM lease rates and they are not indicating the change to negative rate of this magnitude.

                  LBMA Statistics

                  I think it is a glitch on Kitco website.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                    Originally posted by Lukester View Post
                    Yes, and the converse of this is - in the ensuing snap back rally in gold you will most definitely want to see the HUI outperform the bullion. If not, you will see yet lower lows thereafter, and at the price level we're at, "lower lows"mean a sizeble further drop. The signals emanating from the upcoming snap back rally will be high stakes poker for the past six - seven year bull. I lean toward thinking the $780 gold will have been one of EJ's most unerring calls. But watch the HUI performance on the snapback rally!
                    The HUI is on my radar and I see a divergence between Gold and HUI, but I am only interested in shiny things, Luke.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                      Originally posted by Lukester View Post
                      Yes, and the converse of this is - in the ensuing snap back rally in gold you will most definitely want to see the HUI outperform the bullion. If not, you will see yet lower lows thereafter, and at the price level we're at, "lower lows"mean a sizeble further drop. The signals emanating from the upcoming snap back rally will be high stakes poker for the past six - seven year bull. I lean toward thinking the $780 gold will have been one of EJ's most unerring calls. But watch the HUI performance on the snapback rally!
                      it's... it's... ALIVE so far, that is...



                      sure hope it holds. not looking forward to posting the picture that jtabeb wants to see if it falls below $780 on this 'dollar ratchet'. :eek:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                        After reading the notice on KITCO, I called 3 local coin shops yesterday. I asked each for their % markup over spot on gold and silver coins.

                        One said they can't get gold coins and I'd have to come in and negotiate for the silver eagles.

                        Another said they're not linking to the spot and I'd need to come in.

                        The third said they could back order the gold coins and quoted me $18 for the silver eagle.

                        I'm finding this very very strange. If you can't buy silver or gold for a known % over the spot price, than what in the world does the spot price mean? There doesn't seem to be a known price for gold or silver anymore! The price is whatever you can negotiate with whoever has any.

                        When I used to trade on the futures market, I saw the price crash and you couldn't find any buyers. But I ain't never seen a market where the price was crashing and you couldn't find any sellers!!

                        Strange days indeed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                          Originally posted by we_are_toast View Post
                          After reading the notice on KITCO, I called 3 local coin shops yesterday. I asked each for their % markup over spot on gold and silver coins.

                          One said they can't get gold coins and I'd have to come in and negotiate for the silver eagles.

                          Another said they're not linking to the spot and I'd need to come in.

                          The third said they could back order the gold coins and quoted me $18 for the silver eagle.

                          I'm finding this very very strange. If you can't buy silver or gold for a known % over the spot price, than what in the world does the spot price mean? There doesn't seem to be a known price for gold or silver anymore! The price is whatever you can negotiate with whoever has any.

                          When I used to trade on the futures market, I saw the price crash and you couldn't find any buyers. But I ain't never seen a market where the price was crashing and you couldn't find any sellers!!

                          Strange days indeed.
                          spot = paper gold/silver market. these days has little to do with the physical market. same with oil.

                          acid test is to try to sell some and see what a dealer gives you for it. maybe the buy/sell spread is now $100+ for gold and $6 for silver.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                            Originally posted by metalman View Post
                            it's... it's... ALIVE so far, that is... sure hope it holds. not looking forward to posting the picture that jtabeb wants to see if it falls below $780 on this 'dollar ratchet'. :eek:
                            Metalguy - I see the corpse's fingers and toes twitching, but it ain't exactly dancing a jig yet. Amen.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: US mint suspends gold coin sales?

                              Originally posted by idianov View Post
                              Thanks for noting, jtabeb. I checked other sources for PM lease rates and they are not indicating the change to negative rate of this magnitude.

                              LBMA Statistics

                              I think it is a glitch on Kitco website.
                              Sorry dude, GIGO, I thought it was valid

                              Comment

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