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  • Doctrine Alert

    Will it be the Carter...the Monroe...or a brand new and shiny Obama "Save the Earth" Doctrine?

    In Bolivia, Untapped Bounty Meets Nationalism


    Underneath the salt flats in Uyuni, Bolivia, lies the world's largest lithium reserves.

    UYUNI, Bolivia — In the rush to build the next generation of hybrid or electric cars, a sobering fact confronts both automakers and governments seeking to lower their reliance on foreign oil: almost half of the world’s lithium, the mineral needed to power the vehicles, is found here in Bolivia — a country that may not be willing to surrender it so easily.

    Japanese and European companies are busily trying to strike deals to tap the resource, but a nationalist sentiment about the lithium is building quickly in the government of President Evo Morales, an ardent critic of the United States who has already nationalized Bolivia’s oil and natural gas industries.

    For now, the government talks of closely controlling the lithium itself and keeping foreigners at bay. Adding to the pressure, indigenous groups here in the remote salt desert where the mineral lies are pushing for a share in the eventual bounty.

    “We know that Bolivia can become the Saudi Arabia of lithium,” said Francisco Quisbert, 64, the leader of Frutcas, a group of salt gatherers and quinoa farmers on the edge of Salar de Uyuni, the world’s largest salt flat. “We are poor, but we are not stupid peasants,” he said. “The lithium may be Bolivia’s, but it is also our property.”

    The new constitution Mr. Morales managed to pass handily last month bolsters such claims. One of its provisions could give Indians control over the natural resources in their territory, strengthening their ability to win concessions from authorities and private companies, or even block mining projects.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/wo...ithium.html?hp

    The New York Times, preparing tomorrow's battlefield ;)

  • #2
    Re: Doctrine Alert

    Originally posted by don View Post
    Will it be the Carter...the Monroe...or a brand new and shiny Obama "Save the Earth" Doctrine?

    In Bolivia, Untapped Bounty Meets Nationalism


    Underneath the salt flats in Uyuni, Bolivia, lies the world's largest lithium reserves.

    UYUNI, Bolivia — In the rush to build the next generation of hybrid or electric cars, a sobering fact confronts both automakers and governments seeking to lower their reliance on foreign oil: almost half of the world’s lithium, the mineral needed to power the vehicles, is found here in Bolivia — a country that may not be willing to surrender it so easily.

    Japanese and European companies are busily trying to strike deals to tap the resource, but a nationalist sentiment about the lithium is building quickly in the government of President Evo Morales, an ardent critic of the United States who has already nationalized Bolivia’s oil and natural gas industries.

    For now, the government talks of closely controlling the lithium itself and keeping foreigners at bay. Adding to the pressure, indigenous groups here in the remote salt desert where the mineral lies are pushing for a share in the eventual bounty.

    “We know that Bolivia can become the Saudi Arabia of lithium,” said Francisco Quisbert, 64, the leader of Frutcas, a group of salt gatherers and quinoa farmers on the edge of Salar de Uyuni, the world’s largest salt flat. “We are poor, but we are not stupid peasants,” he said. “The lithium may be Bolivia’s, but it is also our property.”

    The new constitution Mr. Morales managed to pass handily last month bolsters such claims. One of its provisions could give Indians control over the natural resources in their territory, strengthening their ability to win concessions from authorities and private companies, or even block mining projects.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/wo...ithium.html?hp

    The New York Times, preparing tomorrow's battlefield ;)
    guess that means only one thing: the usa is not going to count on lithium batteries to solve its fuel efficient car problem. look for designs based on platinum acidic fuel cells and nickel for alkaline versions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Doctrine Alert

      Originally posted by don View Post

      One of its provisions could give Indians control over the natural resources in their territory, strengthening their ability to win concessions from authorities and private companies, or even block mining projects.
      One word: firewater.
      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Doctrine Alert

        Originally posted by metalman View Post
        guess that means only one thing: the usa is not going to count on lithium batteries to solve its fuel efficient car problem. look for designs based on platinum acidic fuel cells and nickel for alkaline versions.
        Not so fast. The Obama Doctrine might very well be Bolivia, a foreign intervention you can believe in.

        I'm sure multi-national corporations, including big oil, are chomping at the bit to gain control over these reserves. Look for Bolivia to be declared a enemy in the US wars on drugs and terrorism.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Doctrine Alert

          Originally posted by antiserf View Post
          Not so fast. The Obama Doctrine might very well be Bolivia, a foreign intervention you can believe in.

          I'm sure multi-national corporations, including big oil, are chomping at the bit to gain control over these reserves. Look for Bolivia to be declared a enemy in the US wars on drugs and terrorism.
          Exactly, but just remove the terrorism part, being an enemy in the war on drugs is suffice.

          And we know Obama is 100% behind it as has every other president been

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Doctrine Alert

            I have been to Santa Cruz, Bolivia which is north of this region. My girlfriends family owns a lot of land and companies in Bolivia. Thanks for bringing this to my attention! Maybe i will try and get a company started to grab some of that land! But of course I would pay the natives a handsome sum for rights to the land. Evo will soon be out as president he will not be another Chavez. The rumblings are already in place and the people will not allow him to nationalize everything and take the land from the landowners.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Doctrine Alert

              I wouldn't buy in too fast unless you're looking to purvey Snake Oil (from what I've read):

              Snake Oil Alert (and yes, Don, I realise this may only strengthen your "Doctrine Alert" argument):

              http://www.incakolanews.blogspot.com...ium-snake.html

              http://incakolanews.blogspot.com/200...vestments.html

              "No, the brave new world of Hybrid transport and electric movement forces is likely to be supplied by good old Zinc/Nickel batteries, as the smart people in white coats have finally worked out how to get these safe metals combining more efficiently. Which just gives you another good reason to bet on the future of Zn the metal, I reckon (though this news is unlikely to move the spot market much in the next 24 hours, it has to be admitted)."

              Prodigy of Zen 8 (how should we appropriately address Thee?): Without casting aspersions on your family contacts in Santa Cruz, what the "opposition" to Morales in Santa Cruz and the other Media Luna departments have been doing (with USAID support it has been alleged) is disgusting. Here's a taste:

              http://www.incakolanews.blogspot.com...-violence.html

              I'm sure there's a well reasoned, honourable opposition to Morales that doesn't involve beating on indians in the street. Do you have any links? And what makes you so sure that Morales will be defeated and that this will be a good thing for the country as a whole?
              Last edited by oddlots; 02-02-09, 10:04 PM. Reason: F'ed up threads

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Doctrine Alert

                Originally posted by antiserf View Post
                Not so fast. The Obama Doctrine might very well be Bolivia, a foreign intervention you can believe in.

                I'm sure multi-national corporations, including big oil, are chomping at the bit to gain control over these reserves. Look for Bolivia to be declared a enemy in the US wars on drugs and terrorism.
                Care to cite a reference?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Doctrine Alert

                  Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                  Care to cite a reference?
                  Here's a reference, though it has nothing to do with lithium but everything to do with opposing the Bolivarian movement (or "revolution" if you're tuning in from Venezuela):

                  http://incakolanews.blogspot.com/200...and-fight.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Doctrine Alert

                    Seriously oddlots? I bet you are one of those people who think "only" whites can be racist? Is that how you think? Trust me those people in bolivia are not getting aid from the US and I have personal contacts in the government that validate that claim. I have seen many "mobs" as that video calls them of Indians attacking whites in Santa Cruz. They were close to war on both sides a few months back. What you dont get is that Santa Cruz is predominately indian and 90% of that city voted agaisnt Morales, so most of the indians and mixed indian/whites in Beni, Santa Cruz, Cochabamba do not like Evo and did not vote for him. Its the large indian population in La Paz and Sucre who voted for him who are like 70% of the population in Bolivia. But even there his own indian people protest agaisnt him for destroying mining jobs. Why is it when 80% of the indians vote for an indian its ethnic voting and OKAY! but when 50% of the whites vote for a white candidate its racist? Its all BS and everything is agaisnt white people now days. You dont think that inca kola news is putting out info so that people will not come to invest in the salt lake and mind the lithium there?? P.S. Inka Cola is pretty good! the soda....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Doctrine Alert

                      Re: not getting aid from the US.

                      "Declassified documents and interviews on the ground in Bolivia prove that the Bush Administration is using U.S. taxpayers’ money to undermine the Morales government and coopt the country’s dynamic social movements—just as it has tried to do recently in Venezuela and traditionally throughout Latin America. Much of that money is going through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). In July 2002, a declassified message from the U.S. embassy in Bolivia to Washington included the following message: “A planned USAID political party reform project aims at implementing an existing Bolivian law that would . . . over the long run, help build moderate, pro-democracy political parties that can serve as a counterweight to the radical MAS or its successors.” MAS refers to Morales’s party, which, in English, stands for Movement Toward Socialism."


                      Source:http://casa-del-duderino.blogspot.co...g-bolivia.html


                      There's also this meeting between the US ambassador and the Media Luna "opposition" at the height of the "war on both sides":


                      "Very strange USA-y things have been going on in Santa Cruz, Bolivia this week. First up, the US ambassador to Bolivia, Philip Goldberg........ went on a visit to the region ostensibly to do some USAID business and stuff. In the words of Goldberg, "......I went to Santa Cruz for various reasons; to deliver aid packages, I was at the inauguration of the special Olympics with the Prefect (Ruben Costas), and I also showed via tele-info the aid in this sector and the aid given in computing. I also took advantage of this visit to meet, in public, with the prefect Costas, only because this is part of my diplomatic duties." Which would be nice if it were true, of course, but Goldberg has been caught in a big fat lie. Here's an image of the "public meeting" Goldberg had with Costas.........and it's only because a cameraman at a local TV station was smart enough to get a shot of them together as they entered and left the Prefecture building....


                      Regarding the question of racism, can I see some documentation of Indian mobs attacking whites? MAS (Evo's party) doesn't need mobs. It's trounced the opposition in two recent elections. In fact check out these images of local police in Santa Cruz running away from opposition thugs in order to avoid a confrontation:


                      http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6h...n-bolivia_news



                      On the other hand, the opposition needs violence in order to claim that Evo's rule will bring Chaos. If you want more sickening images of this I can keep them coming.... How about this from last May:


                      "Specifically, a crowd lead by university youth assaulted campesino delegates from rural municipalities of Chuquisaca (Sucre is the provincial capital), in Sucre to publicly receive central government funds from Morales, for their opposition to moving the capital back to Sucre and support of the MAS government. The campesinos were then forced under threat of further violence to disrobe (pictured above) in Sucre's central public plaza, hold the Chuquisaca flag (bearing the Spanish Imperial Cross), and apologize for not supporting Sucre's demands- kiss the steps of the Casa de la Libertad, where Bolivia's indigenous were originally made legal nonpersons in the drafting of the country's first constitution; all the while their ponchos (symbol of indigenous identity) were burned."


                      http://casa-del-duderino.blogspot.co...-to-print.html


                      Or this video of the Pando massacre:


                      http://www.incakolanews.blogspot.com...o-masacre.html


                      If I am somehow being one sided perhaps you'd care to document some of the anti-white violence for me...



                      Or perhaps you'd just like to distance yourself from the kind of opposition to Morales documented here by showing a well reasoned opposition argument by someone who has not disqualified themselves by being associated with these disgusting a-holes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Doctrine Alert

                        Lol this is funny stuff Oddlots, you can go ahead with your crusade to destroy "whites" because that is exactly what it is. If you do not believe that the Indians riot and kill people you are completely well I won't say it. Yes, I could go through your motions and actions and find videos of indians attacking whites, but you must know these are outliers and not what "most" bolivians do to other bolivians. Everything you have shown so far is conjecture and propaganda and I know that is the world you traffic in because of the sources that you get your news. It is pretty sad to me. I have been there and I know from first hand knowledge of what it is like. What you don't see is the constant robberies, muggins etc done agaisnt the so called "whites" that you talk about.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Doctrine Alert

                          Massacres are "funny stuff"? Videos of them are "conjecture and propaganda"? You don't feel the need to distance yourself from these people?

                          Says it all.

                          O hey, I've got a preview of the sort of mine this joker would set up in Bolivia (as if it'd ever get to production):

                          http://incakolanews.blogspot.com/200...olice-and.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Doctrine Alert

                            what massacres are you talking about? dude you are completely awol.... 1 person dying on either side is not a massacre and 3 people beating up 1 person is not a "mob" like you like to say. How can you claim what kind of mine I would have in Bolivia? Sure there are outliers where miners are treated bad but there are TONS where they are paid good wages relative to the wages in the country and treated fairly. You are one of those nutjobs man, I will know now not to pay attention to your posts. You are one crazy person, yes "all the time' multinational corporations those evil brits and americans put indigenous people in "torture chambers" hah this crap is laughable man. Nice source though, "inka cola" news.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Doctrine Alert

                              people fight and kill each other on both sides, why is it about racism? You are wayyyyy too quick to throw that word around. You do not think the Indians are racist or what? All i see in that video is a bunch of people in the water and then some boxes that supposedly have dead people. Who knows where they are from?

                              Comment

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