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  • Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

    Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli warplanes retaliating for rocket fire from the Gaza Strip pounded dozens of security compounds across the Hamas-ruled territory in unprecedented waves of airstrikes Saturday, killing nearly 200 people and wounding 270 others in the single bloodiest day of fighting in years.

    Most of those killed were security men, but civilians were also among the dead. Hamas said all of its security installations were hit and responded with several medium-range Grad rockets at Israel, reaching deeper than in the past. One Israeli was killed and at least four people were wounded in the rocket attacks. With so many wounded, the Palestinian death toll was likely to rise.

    The air offensive followed weeks of intense Palestinian rocket and mortar fire on southern Israel, and Israeli leaders had issued increasingly tough warnings in recent days that they would not tolerate continued attacks.

    Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Israel would expand the operation if necessary. "There is a time for calm and there is a time for fighting, and now is the time for fighting," he told a news conference. He would not comment when asked if a ground offensive was planned.

    But asked earlier if Hamas political leaders might be targeted next, military spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich said, "Any Hamas target is a target."

    The strikes caused widespread panic and confusion in Gaza, as black clouds of smoke rose above the territory, ruled by Hamas for the past 18 months. Some of the Israeli missiles struck in densely populated areas as children were leaving school, and women rushed into the streets frantically looking for their children. Most of those killed were security men, but civilians were among the dead.

    Said Masri sat in the middle of a Gaza City street, close to a security compound, alternately slapping his face and covering his head with dust from the bombed-out building.

    "My son is gone, my son is gone," wailed Masri, 57. The shopkeeper said he sent his 9-year-old son out to purchase cigarettes minutes before the airstrikes began and now could not find him. "May I burn like the cigarettes, may Israel burn," Masri moaned.

    In Gaza City's main security compound, bodies of more than a dozen uniformed security officers lay on the ground. One survivor raised his index finger in a show of Muslim faith, uttering a prayer. The Gaza police chief was among those killed. One man, his face bloodied, sat dazed on the ground as a fire raged nearby.

    Later, some of the dead, rolled in blankets, were laid out on the floor of Gaza's main hospital for identification. Hamas police spokesman Ehad Ghussein said about 140 Hamas security forces were killed.

    Israeli military officials said more than 100 tons of bombs were dropped on Gaza by mid-afternoon. They spoke on condition of anonymity under military guidelines.

    Defiant Hamas leaders threatened revenge, including suicide attacks. Hamas "will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood," vowed spokesman Fawzi Barhoum.

    Israel told its civilians near Gaza to take cover as militants began retaliating with rockets, and in the West Bank, moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called for restraint. Egypt summoned the Israeli ambassador to express condemnation and opened its border with Gaza to allow ambulances to drive out some of the wounded.

    Israeli leaders approved military action against Gaza earlier in the week.

    Past limited ground incursions and air strikes have not halted rocket barrages from Gaza. But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according to the military's count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military to crush the gunmen.

    Gaza militants fired 30 rockets and mortars Saturday after the air offensive began. A missile hit the town of Netivot, killing an Israeli man and wounding four people, rescue services said.

    Dozens of stunned residents gathered around the house that took the deadly rocket hit. Many wept openly. The crowd broke up after an alert siren went off and sent the onlookers running.

    Streets were nearly empty in Sderot, the Israeli border town that has been pummeled hardest by rockets. A few cars carried panicked residents leaving town. Dozens of people congregated on a hilltop to watch the Israeli aerial attacks.

    Israel declared a state of emergency in Israeli communities within a 12-mile (20-kilometer) range of Gaza, putting the area on a war footing. A siren went off in Kiryat Gat, about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from the border, but early reports that the town was hit by a rocket for the first time were incorrect.

    Barak, the Israeli defense minister, said the coming period "won't be easy" for southern Israel.

    Protests against the campaign erupted in the Abbas-ruled West Bank and across the Arab world.

    Several hundred angry Jordanians protested outside a U.N. complex in the capital Amman. "Hamas, go ahead. You are the cannon, we are the bullets," they cried, some waving the signature green Hamas banners.

    In Ein Hilweh, a Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon, dozens of youths hit the streets and set fire to tires. In Syria's al-Yarmouk camp, outside Damascus, dozens of Palestinian protesters vowed to continue fighting Israel.

    The first round of air strikes on Gaza came just before noon.

    Hospitals crowded with people, civilians rushing in wounded people in cars, vans and ambulances. "We are treating people on the floor, in the corridors. We have no more space. We don't know who is here or who to treat first," said one doctor who hung up the phone before identifying himself at Shifa Hospital, Gaza's main treatment center.

    Dr. Moawiya Hassanain, a Gaza Health Ministry official, said at least 192 people were killed and 270 wounded. Frantic civilians drove wounded people to hospitals in their cars.

    In the West Bank, Hamas' rival, Abbas, said in a statement that he "condemns this aggression" and called for restraint, according to an aide, Nabil Abu Rdeneh. Abbas, who has ruled only the West Bank since the Islamic Hamas seized power in Gaza in June 2007, was in contact with Arab leaders, and his West Bank Cabinet convened an emergency session.

    Israel has targeted Gaza in the past, but the number of simultaneous attacks was unprecedented.

    Israel left Gaza in 2005 after a 38-year occupation, but the withdrawal did not lead to better relations with Palestinians in the territory as Israeli officials had hoped.

    Instead, the evacuation was followed by a sharp rise in militant attacks on Israeli border communities that on several occasions provoked harsh Israeli military reprisals.

    The last, in late February and early March, spurred both sides to agree to a truce that was to have lasted six months but began unraveling in early November.

    (This version CORRECTS that siren went off in Kiryat Gat, but there was no rocket.)
    Say bye bye to Pakistan and its nukes. Israel is being baited into striking for a reason.
    Last edited by Sapiens; 12-27-08, 12:13 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

    Originally posted by Sapiens View Post
    Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192



    Say bye bye to Pakistan and its nukes. Israel is being baited into striking for a reason.
    Dude, english please. A lot of us WANT to listen. Could you please be more explicit?

    Thank you

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

      Why is this country even allowed to exist anymore?

      "Hey, they shot some rockets at us and damaged some of our buildings, so let's just destroy their entire country and murder their duly elected leaders, but as long as we get them it's ok if we take out innocent civilians in the process".

      [sarcasm]Yeah, that makes sense![/sarcasm]

      No wonder so many people and other leaders around the world are so Anti-Semitic. The Israelis just seem to always be hell-bent on causing death, destruction, and committing war crimes against their neighbors (Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, etc).

      One of these days, a major country is going to get fed up (like Iran) and will try and retaliate for these crimes in a major way. At this point, based on what all Israel is done, in my opinion they *deserve* to have one or both eyes blackened, if not outright gouged out of their skulls. Same goes for the US. Im sick and tired of all the BS that we engage in around the world and it's time for it to stop.
      Last edited by ricket; 12-27-08, 06:38 PM.
      Every interest bearing loan is mathematically impossible to pay back.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

        Ricket, a year and a half old cease fire between Israel and Hamas ended two days ago, and during that time a large number of rockets were fired at Israeli cities. At the most superficial level of analysis, the attacks were aimed at halting this.

        There are plenty of sites that discuss the geopolitical complexities of the situation in that region. You will probably find more thorough answers to your questions there than you will at iTulip. If you do want to find more meaningful answers then you might, and even if you can't, in time you may be able to ask more meaningful questions about a deeply complex political situation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

          Originally posted by Chris View Post
          in time you may be able to ask more meaningful questions about a deeply complex political situation.
          What is so deeply complex about it? It comes down to one simple thing, one either coexists, or excludes others. Usurers believe they have the absolute right to exclude others, deluded fools believe that we all can coexist in a peaceful manner.

          What is so deeply complex about that?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

            Originally posted by Sapiens View Post
            What is so deeply complex about it? It comes down to one simple thing, one either coexists, or excludes others. Usurers believe they have the absolute right to exclude others, deluded fools believe that we all can coexist in a peaceful manner.

            What is so deeply complex about that?
            So what are you Sapiens, a usurer or a fool?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

              Originally posted by Chris View Post
              Ricket, a year and a half old cease fire between Israel and Hamas ended two days ago, and during that time a large number of rockets were fired at Israeli cities. At the most superficial level of analysis, the attacks were aimed at halting this.
              That would be the most superficial analysis, as you say. Which is the one the Israelis and the U.S. administration are projecting as best they can. . .

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                Originally posted by Jay View Post
                So what are you Sapiens, a usurer or a fool?
                Let me put it this way Jay, I would choose to save the life of my children over your life. Does that answer your question.

                However, at an spiritual level, whatever does it matter my actions if we are all in the end one...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                  Originally posted by Sapiens View Post
                  What is so deeply complex about it? It comes down to one simple thing, one either coexists, or excludes others. Usurers believe they have the absolute right to exclude others, deluded fools believe that we all can coexist in a peaceful manner.

                  What is so deeply complex about that?
                  The Pauli exclusion principle makes us all usurers, then.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                    Originally posted by Jay View Post
                    So what are you Sapiens, a usurer or a fool?
                    Sapiens sets up a dichotomy that seems to present a challenge for peaceful co-existence, a paradox if you will.

                    What he doesn't state is that the paradox is EASILY resolved.

                    I met some Israeli pilots while they were here to buy a new airplane from the US. They were here to "try before you buy" type of thing.

                    We had a great time visiting and flying with them, but the most interesting thing was the conversations that we had in the "ready room" (read B A R) afterwards.

                    Great, Great bunch of guys. As you know I'm not the most PC guy, nor have I ever been accused of being indirect, to put it mildly.

                    So bottom line we had a lot of drinks, smoked a few cigs, and talked about all the things you shouldn't talk about when you have foreign visitors. (you know, religion, politics, and money).

                    I got into a wee bit of trouble for my direct conversations with these guys, but I had the conversation I wanted to have with them, not the bullshit PC version I was told to have with them.

                    What did I learn?

                    They were no different from me, they think a lot about the world, put up with a lot of political bullshit, want to protect their countrymen, AND understand that most of us on either side of this divide could live and love and peacefully co-exist with out much effort at all.

                    Maybe it was just that I have an interesting story,
                    (my Dad, Palestinian American, died fighting the Russian's in Afghanistan in the early 80's, and here I am a Pilot in the USAF, married to a girl who's grandmother was a Holocaust survivor, and we have three kids) but I think it was much more than that. We all realized that 10% of the people on either side are ******* it all up, it's as simple as that.

                    So the solution to the paradox is to let the "FOOLS" live together in peace and harmony and let the other ass-wipes duke it out and kill each other.

                    Now granted the spill over effects of the conflict cause more problems than can be allowed but the important point for all of you to take away is this.

                    For 80% of the people, a solution exists, it's a shame that it only takes 20% or so to cause a conflict to plunge into perpetual war. Think about that.

                    But DON'T tell me that MOST people have irreconcilable differences. That is just another popular untruth to allow people to maintain the fallacy of fearing the "other".

                    Don't buy crap, it smells bad and it will make you stink too if you buy it, so just don't.

                    P.S. There is no deviation from historical fact in my re-telling of the above, i.e. YES it's all true, in case you were going to ask.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                      Try to occupy the same time and space with another and let me know how that works out for you, that is, if you survive.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                        Originally posted by Sapiens View Post
                        Try to occupy the same time and space with another and let me know how that works out for you, that is, if you survive.

                        Been doing that for going on 12 years now, she ain't killed me yet, nor I her, and considering our respective backgrounds, our children are remarkably well adjusted.;)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                          Originally posted by Scot View Post
                          The Pauli exclusion principle makes us all usurers, then.
                          Thanks Scot.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle
                          This additional force is therefore responsible for the everyday observation in the macroscopic world that two solid objects cannot be in the same place in the same time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                            Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
                            They were no different from me, they think a lot about the world, put up with a lot of political bullshit, want to protect their countrymen, AND understand that most of us on either side of this divide could live and love and peacefully co-exist with out much effort at all.

                            .
                            .
                            .
                            .
                            We all realized that 10% of the people on either side are ******* it all up, it's as simple as that.
                            JTabeb,

                            It is the 10% that make the world unlivable for the 90% -- For a deeper understanding, read "Political Ponerology" Understanding that 10%, and recognizing them for what they are, and taking appropriate actions to safeguard yourself and others like you, could be the only way for this world to become a better place to live!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Israel strikes demolish Hamas compounds, kill 192

                              Originally posted by Sapiens View Post
                              Let me put it this way Jay, I would choose to save the life of my children over your life. Does that answer your question.

                              However, at an spiritual level, whatever does it matter my actions if we are all in the end one...
                              It matters a great deal, Sapiens, and that is exactly what is missing from all these discussions of the conflict. I do not often quote from intellectuals to explain my point but in this case I must choose one from the political philosopher and champion of liberal democratic pluralism, Jurgen Habermas;

                              "Christianity, and nothing else," he wrote, "is the ultimate foundation of liberty, conscience, human rights, and democracy, the benchmarks of western civilization. To this day, we have no other options [to Christianity]. We continue to nourish ourselves from this source. Everything else is postmodern chatter."
                              Habermas speaks as a Western atheist intellectual and hence focuses on Christianity, but anyone who has studied and understood the religious foundations of the West will see that Judaism and Christianity must co-exist, one with the other. Many Christian and Jewish theologians (Martin Buber, Franz Rosenzweig, etc) have covered this in great detail (if you are interested in seeing what they have to say). As this is an economics forum, I will leave it at that, except to say that for most enlightened liberal atheists this conflict and it's analysis often come down to simple utilitarian calculus and hence miss the point entirely. For a larger majority in this world I suspect it signifies something much deeper even if most can not (or will not) articulate it.

                              Comment

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