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  • Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

    This time it seems real, the rumors are everywhere. If the dollar devalues suddenly, it will bring back the financial crisis.

  • #2
    Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

    Originally posted by touchring View Post
    This time it seems real, the rumors are everywhere. If the dollar devalues suddenly, it will bring back the financial crisis.
    Are these rehashes of the old rumors that projected a date right about now, or are these new rumors?

    Unsubstantiated allegations of unsubstantiated rehashes of tin-foil-hat rumors ... wow :rolleyes:!
    Most folks are good; a few aren't.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

      Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
      Are these rehashes of the old rumors that projected a date right about now, or are these new rumors?

      Unsubstantiated allegations of unsubstantiated rehashes of tin-foil-hat rumors ... wow :rolleyes:!

      I don't think anyone can put a date, but I know it will happen one day.

      China recently passed a paramilitary law, it looks to me that they are preparing for a big drop in exports. All the actions China has done so far are in preparation for a dollar collapse. China is not America, politics are not determined by money alone, you can see that from the Rio Tinto incident. They want power and if it takes a financial, economic disaster and a collateral damage of a few hundred thousand lives to obtain that power, then be it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

        I haven't heard talk


        Ashmore head of research warns of devaluation

        Developed world currencies and state debt are on the verge of a historic devaluation as emerging market governments sell out of the asset classes, according to Ashmore Investment Management.


        Jerome Booth, head of research at the emerging markets specialist, described global monetary reform as "the most important part of the credit crunch" and suggested shifting emerging market reserves would terminate "a failed trade" by moving away from dollars in particular.


        "A lot of people believe the dollar will be OK," he said. "That's a fiction."
        He described the strengthening of the dollar after the collapse of Lehman Brothers as a "flight to liability", not a flight to quality, as market participants struggled to pay down their debts.


        He drew a parallel with the UK's entry into the first world war. Sterling then strengthened as a reserve currency after sterling debt issuers rushed to deleverage, in spite of the fact the UK was a combatant.


        http://www.ftadviser.com/InvestmentA...evaluation.jsp

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

          Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
          Are these rehashes of the old rumors that projected a date right about now, or are these new rumors?

          Unsubstantiated allegations of unsubstantiated rehashes of tin-foil-hat rumors ... wow :rolleyes:!
          Cow that was to happen on the 26th - Let's see what day is it now?

          Could happen but I don't think anyone can call the day jmo. Btw I'm starting to get into the "tin-foil-hat" stuff. hee-hee

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

            Originally posted by rabot10 View Post
            Cow that was to happen on the 26th - Let's see what day is it now?

            Could happen but I don't think anyone can call the day jmo. Btw I'm starting to get into the "tin-foil-hat" stuff. hee-hee


            We can't call the day, because no one, including Barack Obama knows when the Chinese will stop supporting dollar debt. The Chinese are known to do crazy things like what happened to Rio Tinto.

            One thing that I do know, the Chinese hate it when they see something like the following - soon they will show the world who is boss.
            Ben Bernanke - We Saved the World from Disaster.
            - 21 Aug 2009
            Last edited by touchring; 08-29-09, 12:08 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

              Originally posted by touchring View Post
              We can't call the day, because no one, including Barack Obama knows when the Chinese will stop supporting dollar debt. The Chinese are known to do crazy things like what happened to Rio Tinto.

              One thing that I do know, the Chinese hate it when they see something like the following - soon they will show the world who is boss.
              if the chinese deliberately and dramatically pull the plug, it will be for some very important political reason, as an economic attack on the u.sf. economically, their best interest is to tiptoe away, using their dollar hoard to buy assets or as long as possible. to pull the plug is to throw away their ability to use their dollars to buy things of value.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                Originally posted by jk
                if the chinese deliberately and dramatically pull the plug, it will be for some very important political reason, as an economic attack on the u.sf. economically, their best interest is to tiptoe away, using their dollar hoard to buy assets or as long as possible. to pull the plug is to throw away their ability to use their dollars to buy things of value.
                Very true statement.

                But the political reason might be to teach the Democrat party a lesson in 2010 so that Obama will be more amenable to China's demands for American fiscal prudence.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                  Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                  Very true statement.

                  But the political reason might be to teach the Democrat party a lesson in 2010 so that Obama will be more amenable to China's demands for American fiscal prudence.
                  China has an export economy that has flourished to some unknown degree to me because of the US consumer. The US's fiscal policy seems right now to be to reignite the US consumer, which were it to be successful again as it was in 2002, then who might mostly profit from such restoration of the US consumer? I think China is probably highest on the list.
                  Jim 69 y/o

                  "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                  Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                  Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                    Originally posted by Jim Nickerson
                    China has an export economy that has flourished to some unknown degree to me because of the US consumer. The US's fiscal policy seems right now to be to reignite the US consumer, which were it to be successful again as it was in 2002, then who might mostly profit from such restoration of the US consumer? I think China is probably highest on the list.
                    Jim,

                    I disagree that the US policy is to reignite the consumer.

                    The US official policy is to 'support the economy', but the US actual policy has been to subsidize the bankers.

                    What China is seeing is no different than what we're seeing: massive subsidies to a small segment of the population. This segment of the population is no more likely to support China's exports than they are to support the overall US economy.

                    As Dr. Hudson says: we're in the stage where the host is dying and the parasites are laying their eggs in the about to be corpse.

                    To apply a picture to the statement - the handy dandy Exiledonline:

                    http://exiledonline.com/parasites-we...t-sea-insects/

                    186sacculinacarcini102.jpg

                    This crab is infested with Sacculina carcini, a kind of sea lice.

                    When a Sacculina gets impregnated, it becomes more demanding. To grow its eggs, it needs all the energy it can suck out of its crab host without killing it. And the crab is happy to oblige. It doesn’t get suicidal, and doesn’t try to bash its head on a rock. No, the crab has become the perfect slave, adopting its master’s needs as its own. The more the Sacculina takes, the more subservient the crab becomes, working overtime to feed its little overlords. The crab stops its molting process altogether, meaning that it no longer increases in size. Nor does it regrow lost limbs or claws. The crab just wanders around, haggard and tired, eating to feed the little Sacculinas quickly growing on its belly.
                    Not only is that white blob the sexual organ of the parasite - not the crab, but this crab may well have once been a male:

                    The Sacculina is so thoroughly in control, it has the power to turn male crabs into females—and that it does. Tweaking a man crab’s hormonal mix, the parasite widens its host’s abdomen to make it more feminine and better equipped to carry its young. When the eggs start popping out, it convinces the male that they are chicks—pregnant chicks—and that the eggs they carry contain little crablings. And so these poor suckers climb on rocks and bob up and down to help the little parasite zygotes break free and float away in safety, which is what female crabs do with their young.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                      Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                      Jim,

                      I disagree that the US policy is to reignite the consumer.

                      The US official policy is to 'support the economy', but the US actual policy has been to subsidize the bankers.

                      What China is seeing is no different than what we're seeing: massive subsidies to a small segment of the population. This segment of the population is no more likely to support China's exports than they are to support the overall US economy.

                      As Dr. Hudson says: we're in the stage where the host is dying and the parasites are laying their eggs in the about to be corpse.

                      To apply a picture to the statement - the handy dandy Exiledonline:

                      http://exiledonline.com/parasites-we...t-sea-insects/

                      [ATTACH]2064[/ATTACH]

                      This crab is infested with Sacculina carcini, a kind of sea lice.



                      Not only is that white blob the sexual organ of the parasite - not the crab, but this crab may well have once been a male:
                      I don't know how fine a point it is, but how does one reignite the consumer vs. "supporting the economy" by subsidizing the bankers?

                      If the zero interest rates to banks doesn't (at least not yet) push money into the economy, then how about the government incentives to the average man to spend : "Sen. Johnny Isakson, Republican of Georgia (formerly in the real-estate business), continues to introduce legislation to: increase the maximum [home-buyer's] tax credit from $8,000 to $15,000; expand the credit to apply to any buyers, regardless of income or first-time status.

                      Bottom line: The cash-for-clunkers program has been so successful that we can expect to see expanded positive incentives for targeted consumer spending. The opportunity to extend the expiring first-time home-buyer tax credit would be a huge political win for the Republicans and hardly a Democrat will stand in its way. An expanded and enlarged home-buyer tax credit could well trigger an unexpectedly large boost to housing demand at a time when mortgage rates are still low and pent-up demand is high. It would not only boost first-time buyer demand, but would also jump-start the move-up and retirement-home markets as well.

                      Housing is the most interest-sensitive sector of the economy and...the traditional transmission mechanism for monetary policy. It could well be an important transmission mechanism for fiscal stimulus through a broadened and extended home-buyers' tax credit. Home-buying also leads to...expenditures like furniture and appliance purchases, painting and other upgrades, and energy-efficiency spending. The positive impact on the overall U.S. economy could be large."[1]

                      So doesn't government action to induce people to buy more freaking stuff on more freaking credit, boost the economy, subsidize the bankers, and continue the debtor on the road to debtor's hell? What's not to like? I don't ask that in a moral sense, but rather in an oligarchal sense.


                      [1] http://online.barrons.com/article/market_watch.html
                      Jim 69 y/o

                      "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                      Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                      Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                        Jim,

                        I disagree that the US policy is to reignite the consumer.

                        The US official policy is to 'support the economy', but the US actual policy has been to subsidize the bankers.

                        What China is seeing is no different than what we're seeing: massive subsidies to a small segment of the population. This segment of the population is no more likely to support China's exports than they are to support the overall US economy.

                        As Dr. Hudson says: we're in the stage where the host is dying and the parasites are laying their eggs in the about to be corpse.

                        To apply a picture to the statement - the handy dandy Exiledonline:

                        http://exiledonline.com/parasites-we...t-sea-insects/

                        [ATTACH]2064[/ATTACH]

                        This crab is infested with Sacculina carcini, a kind of sea lice.



                        Not only is that white blob the sexual organ of the parasite - not the crab, but this crab may well have once been a male:
                        dude, find a less revolting metaphor.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                          Originally posted by Jim Nickerson
                          So doesn't government action to induce people to buy more freaking stuff on more freaking credit, boost the economy, subsidize the bankers, and continue the debtor on the road to debtor's hell? What's not to like? I don't ask that in a moral sense, but rather in an oligarchal sense.
                          Jim,

                          Some part of the government is kind of trying to induce people to buy more stuff, but the problem is that creation of credit at the individual level means reduction of purchasing power of the debt held already.

                          Or in simpler terms: the banks already own everything. Any more credit just means free crap for consumers.

                          And since the bankers own the government...

                          Consider cash for clunkers: 1 or 3 billion bucks vs. the hundreds of billions/trillions spent on banks

                          This is what Dr. Hudson is referring to when he speaks of the host dying: to the bankers, the American economy is already toast. Time to sauve quie peut - grab what you can and run.

                          Originally posted by goadam1
                          dude, find a less revolting metaphor.
                          Well, it is rather disgusting but then again, apropos in many ways.

                          The bankers have found a way into the body of the American economy: via the prybar of money in the interstices of the political system - the controlling center of the United States.

                          The bankers have used influence in the MSM to brainwash the body of the American people into largely accepting their parasitical practices, and are now injecting the dogma which will convert a previously (ostensibly) democratic and capitalist nation into an oligarchical and socialist one.

                          Consider the white blob a big extended middle finger to all those crabs who think they are free

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                            Jim,

                            I disagree that the US policy is to reignite the consumer.

                            The US official policy is to 'support the economy', but the US actual policy has been to subsidize the bankers.
                            All the more confirms that the credit crisis is not over yet.


                            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                            What China is seeing is no different than what we're seeing: massive subsidies to a small segment of the population. This segment of the population is no more likely to support China's exports than they are to support the overall US economy.

                            Not totally the same. China's strengthening and pumping free money into state enterprises across the board, not just a specific industry, and especially not just for an industry that does not produce anything concrete in the long run - such as finance.

                            That's a minor but significant difference.
                            Last edited by touchring; 08-30-09, 12:14 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Talk of dollar devaluation getting stronger by the day.

                              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                              Jim,

                              Some part of the government is kind of trying to induce people to buy more stuff, but the problem is that creation of credit at the individual level means reduction of purchasing power of the debt held already.

                              Or in simpler terms: the banks already own everything. Any more credit just means free crap for consumers.

                              And since the bankers own the government...

                              c1ue, these may all may be true, but I don't think it renders Jim's point of potential reigniting the consumer moot.

                              Consider what has happened and is continuing to occur:
                              1. people run up debts that they can't pay back, and while doing so they support the inflation of the housing bubble AND the consumer driven economy, importing from and supporting China
                              2 debt bubble collapses; people walk away from their debts either willingly or unwillingly.
                              3 banks become insolvent b/c the debt is not/cannot be paid back, but government prints/borrows to make banks whole
                              4. banks are incentivized to lend with the now virtually explicit promise that they will always be bail-out should the banks bets (including conusmer loans) default.
                              5. the public is getting wind, that there is indeed a "reset" of the system going on, slowly, allowing one to default on debt (which ultimately goes on the public ledger), all for the purpose of enabling the same consumer to start buying with debt again. The society is deflating the debt by simply transferring it onto the public balance sheet, and hoping that nobody (U.S. public and U.S creditors) will really care.

                              Ask the majority of american consumers if they want to get some debt relief and a new increased credit limit at the expense of an additional $20T US debt, and what do you think they will say? Ask the Chinese the same question.

                              Fairness, rule of law, our children's future etc, you'd think would be front and center concerns, but unfortunately it looks like short-sighted personal gains are the focus of the day and ethic of our generation.

                              Comment

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