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The Old Order Changeth

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  • The Old Order Changeth

    For the week's Weekly Commentary, we offer a chapter from the distant past that offers a more than a passing resemblance to current conditions, for your consideration and comment.











    Last edited by FRED; 02-09-09, 07:05 PM.
    Ed.

  • #2
    Re: The Old Order Changeth

    Originally posted by FRED View Post
    For the week's Weekly Commentary, we offer a chapter from the distant past that offers a more than a passing resemblance to current conditions, for your consideration and comment.




    This image below needs to be hacked off after the first "Not only in big cities is this"

    We now continue with your regularly scheduled programming

    "Not only in big cities is this the case"






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    • #3
      Re: The Old Order Changeth

      And then Wilson snookered us into World War One :p

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Old Order Changeth

        Originally posted by don View Post
        And then Wilson snookered us into World War One :p
        that book is a collection of his campaign speeches.

        'i'm gonna clean up washington and get rid of the big business interests who are wrecking our country' is a tried and true way to get elected. war is a tried and true escape from economic disaster.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Old Order Changeth

          But is also true that for a brief period the United States did indeed lead the entire world with new thinking that did, certainly to this individual, born in 1944, gave the impression that there was a nation with a higher morality than any other. But the real lesson is to recognise what went wrong; why did everything change back to previous inglorious times?

          A friend postulated a theory recently that I have been thinking about. In essence, he suggested that what went wrong is that we have not recognised that the planet lost a large proportion of what one might describe as the peaceful free thinkers during WW2. Such individuals will not have had the mental resources to overcome extreme difficulties and were 'eliminated' for want of a better term. This particularly applied to the economic leaders throughout Europe, the Jewish population. The result was that by 1945/6 the dominant force came from individuals that had survived WW2 and were, as a result, stronger, more forceful, less inclined to open mindedness, more inclined to take control rather than accept a debate about control.

          That our economic leadership came from an unbalanced leadership group that did not truly reflect the widest intellectual capacity of a more balanced population. That strength and control became the dominant intellectual force underpinning the immediate success after 1946.

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          • #6
            Re: The Old Order Changeth

            Chris, Interesting way to look at it. The argument sounds a little like survival of the fittest leading us to an ever more brutish world but I'm not so sure.

            The history of civilization has been one of ever better lifestyles for the lesser abled. Wealth created by agriculture allowed leisure, arts and education. The elderly and those physically disabled could be better supported, etc. Industrial revolution: same thing. Yes, there were setbacks along the way but the overall trajectory was up.

            As a good modern day example, look at China under Mao. Tens of millions were killed especially the intellectuals, entrepreneurs and free thinkers. But once the government allowed free thought and capitalism again the Chinese people blossomed in an unimaginable way.

            As for American supremacy inhibiting alternate thinking, again, I'm not so sure. After all, isn't the US model one of freedom and intellectual liberty? Yes, the US exercised control but it was, arguably, for a greater cause. It was the communist model that concentrated on strength and control just for its' own sake.

            The argument you make works best not by arguing US hegemony but communist. It was in russia and east europe where the Jews suffered the most and saw the greatest depletion in their population. And it was there where communism, unbalanced leadership, in the form of one party rule, and brutality, most fully took root.
            Last edited by BiscayneSunrise; 02-10-09, 06:02 AM.
            Greg

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            • #7
              Re: The Old Order Changeth

              Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise View Post
              Chris, Interesting way to look at it. The argument sounds a little like survival of the fittest leading us to an ever more brutish world but I'm not so sure.

              The history of civilization has been one of ever better lifestyles for the lesser abled. Wealth created by agriculture allowed leisure, arts and education. The elderly and those physically disabled could be better supported, etc. Industrial revolution: same thing. Yes, there were setbacks along the way but the overall trajectory was up.

              As a good modern day example, look at China under Mao. Tens of millions were killed especially the intellectuals, entrepreneurs and free thinkers. But once the government allowed free thought and capitalism again the Chinese people blossomed in an unimaginable way.

              As for American supremacy inhibiting alternate thinking, again, I'm not so sure. After all, isn't the US model one of freedom and intellectual liberty? Yes, the US exercised control but it was, arguably, for a greater cause. It was the communist model that concentrated on strength and control just for its' own sake.

              The argument you make works best not by arguing US hegemony but communist. It was in russia and east europe where the Jews suffered the most and saw the greatest depletion in their population. And it was there where communism, unbalanced leadership, in the form of one party rule, and brutality, most fully took root.
              Greg,

              yes, indeed you are correct, but I was this very morning reminded of something I had long forgotten. The Kibbutz is an essentially socialist commune. So you have, yes, in varying degrees, had the result of an imbalance. But that dominant force for European communism came from a long suppressed Russian population, not from the destroyed Jewish population. We need to remember that nations such as Czechoslovakia and Poland were both prosperous and peaceful before WW2. So communism came from another imbalance, prior to WW2.

              Here in the UK back in 1946 we had been long regarded as a nation of shopkeepers. Millions of small businesses. Take a walk around a modern, sic!, UK town today and there is complete uniformity. Every High Street now has the same shops and brands. But instead of the change happening over, say, five years, here that change has happened over a half century.

              So the imbalance has been very slow moving in its long term effect. The change from a free, prosperous, with many faceted local communities to a feudal, very uniform nation, has been wrought by a quite unusual unbalanced human attitude to freedom.

              Chris.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Old Order Changeth

                Chris,

                I was just in London last week for the big snowstorm and what a great experience it was! I spent the next two days walking around the city and had a chance to see the changes you are talking about. as the saying, goes, "thank God, there will always be an England" As I don't need to tell you, central London is hardly "English" anymore given its role as a cultural and ethnic melting pot. London, has been and continues to be a trendsetter for the west. Some people say it is Los Angeles but I think london is more like it.

                Anyway, got off topic. I'll have to think more about your thoughts but i do agree that east Europe was a socialist incubator 100 years ago. Interest of note, many Jews here in the US are strongly liberal, even socialist and their families came from E Europe as immigrants. Coincidence?

                Off to catch a flight. Cheers!
                Greg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Old Order Changeth

                  Originally posted by don View Post
                  And then Wilson snookered us into World War One :p
                  Before the Lusitania sunk with arms, wasn't there a Federal Reserve Act ?


                  Secret of the Lusitania: Arms find challenges Allied claims it was solely a passenger ship

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Old Order Changeth

                    Originally posted by D-Mack View Post
                    Like most of us I was taught, in the 15 minutes alloted to WW1, that US participation was forced on the US by the German's so-called unrestricted submarine warfare. At the time I swallowed that whole. Today I look at that situation a little differently, with no need for undisclosed revelations.

                    The major powers of Europe are in an all-out war conflict, no holds barred, to the death conflagration. Part of that is the blockade of Germany by the British navy. One of the two non-European powers, America (the other being Japan), is a declared neutral but as the war drags on increasingly supplies one side with needed materials, loans, etc. Germany retaliates by sinking the US ships.

                    It was war, wasn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Old Order Changeth

                      Originally posted by don View Post
                      Like most of us I was taught, in the 15 minutes alloted to WW1, that US participation was forced on the US by the German's so-called unrestricted submarine warfare. At the time I swallowed that whole. Today I look at that situation a little differently, with no need for undisclosed revelations.

                      The major powers of Europe are in an all-out war conflict, no holds barred, to the death conflagration. Part of that is the blockade of Germany by the British navy. One of the two non-European powers, America (the other being Japan), is a declared neutral but as the war drags on increasingly supplies one side with needed materials, loans, etc. Germany retaliates by sinking the US ships.

                      It was war, wasn't it?
                      that is the model for wwiii, too.... as a war drags on the losing side the usa is not supplying makes the following calculation... if we don't get the usa to stop sending weapons and supplies to our enemies we're going to lose. if we do attack the usa we may bring the usa dirctly down on our heads, but if we don't attack the usa then we will certainly lose the war. so we will attack the usa and gamble they will back off supplying our enemies because it's our only chance... we have nothing to lose.

                      this decision point also explains japan's 'suicidal' attack on the usa and nearly every attack on the usa.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Old Order Changeth

                        Originally posted by metalman View Post
                        that is the model for wwiii, too.... as a war drags on the losing side the usa is not supplying makes the following calculation... if we don't get the usa to stop sending weapons and supplies to our enemies we're going to lose. if we do attack the usa we may bring the usa dirctly down on our heads, but if we don't attack the usa then we will certainly lose the war. so we will attack the usa and gamble they will back off supplying our enemies because it's our only chance... we have nothing to lose.

                        this decision point also explains japan's 'suicidal' attack on the usa and nearly every attack on the usa.
                        Personally, I do not believe there is going to be a WWiii. Instead, there are so many of us thoroughly pissed of with the machinations of those that always want to bring it on, they decide to call a full stop. The first stage was in the US with a vote for CHANGE. The next? We just might get a signal in that direction from the Israeli elections.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Old Order Changeth

                          Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise View Post
                          Interest of note, many Jews here in the US are strongly liberal, even socialist and their families came from E Europe as immigrants. Coincidence?
                          No, not a coincidence. Every community becomes socialised by the interaction of all the different attitudes of all the individuals. So it is a natural consequence of such alignments. What capitalism did was bring in a simple mechanism to allow them all to reach their individual aiming points, while remaining a part of that community.

                          What has gone wrong is that there will always be another, quite natural tendency, for some to want total control. The Founding Fathers of the United States, saw this as inevitable and set about producing some simple rules to strike a balance between community and control; natural flair and feudalism. But once those that followed became more successful, they lost sight of just how easily you can return to a situation where the dominant take complete control.

                          We have a great challenge ahead of us, to re-set the clock back to a more equitable solution that brings in everyone, rather than one that pretends to, but cannot deliver.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Old Order Changeth

                            You all act like we aren't at war and that we don't have troops all around the globe.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Old Order Changeth

                              The thing screaming at me from Wilson's campaign speech is the doublespeak! He mentions reconstructing economic society via a silent revolution, with open debate, wherein;
                              Originally posted by Fred View Post
                              "America will insist upon recovering in practice those ideals which she has always professed, upon securing a government devoted to the general interest and not to special interests." Woodrow Wilson, 1913

                              In the meantime, behind the scenes, a small group of international bankers are conspiring (and buying off politicians) to take over control of the American monetary system and create a private banking monopoly on the creation of money, via the Federal Reserve Act.

                              So... (Circa 1913) Business as usual. Politicians lie. Insiders conspire to steal from the little guy. The people suffer under deception, manipulation and economic slavery.

                              Fast forward 96 years...

                              That is why we are is the circumstances we find ourselves today. Still being lied to, manipulated and scrambling to protect what little is left of the fruits of our labor from entrenched forces intent upon having it one way or the other.

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