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pwcmba
04-20-09, 12:35 AM
This video points out the dismal state of investment returns for the 30 somethings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vne8X6cymgE

I am about to exit my thirties and my wife made an interesting observation yesterday. Nobody we know our age is doing better than they were 10 years ago. We know people older doing better than 10 years ago but nobody our age! Are we slackers after all?:eek:

jimmygu3
04-20-09, 01:31 AM
This video points out the dismal state of investment returns for the 30 somethings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vne8X6cymgE

I am about to exit my thirties and my wife made an interesting observation yesterday. Nobody we know our age is doing better than they were 10 years ago. We know people older doing better than 10 years ago but nobody our age! Are we slackers after all?:eek:

I'm the same age as you. I am doing as well or better than I was 10 years ago, so I can't complain. I averaged about +4% annually for the decade.

I feel sorry for the retirees who trusted the experts at Fidelity by sinking their whole account into funds like the 2010 fund. That's supposed to be the perfect allocation for people retiring in 2010. And it is down 30%. South Park comes to mind. And, it's gone.

Jimmy

Basil
04-20-09, 01:36 PM
I'm the same age as you. I am doing as well or better than I was 10 years ago, so I can't complain. I averaged about +4% annually for the decade.

I feel sorry for the retirees who trusted the experts at Fidelity by sinking their whole account into funds like the 2010 fund. That's supposed to be the perfect allocation for people retiring in 2010. And it is down 30%. South Park comes to mind. And, it's gone.

Jimmy

I'll be leaving my thirties by the end of the year, and like Jimmy I have done all right. Then again, a lot of that has to do with just following my instincts instead of the investment crowd. I really can't believe how uneducated most people are when it comes to their 401ks. Not only are they losing money, they are paying someone else to do it for them.

jimmygu3
04-20-09, 02:16 PM
I'll be leaving my thirties by the end of the year, and like Jimmy I have done all right. Then again, a lot of that has to do with just following my instincts instead of the investment crowd. I really can't believe how uneducated most people are when it comes to their 401ks. Not only are they losing money, they are paying someone else to do it for them.

60 Minutes had a good piece about this last night. The fees are hidden in so many places or not disclosed at all, and the industry fights back hard against greater transparency. They said fees can eat up 50% of a person's gains.
<embed src="http://www.cbs.com/thunder/swf30can10cbsnews/rcpHolderCbs-3-4x3.swf" flashvars="link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecbsnews%2Ecom%2Fvideo%2Fwa tch%2F%3Fid%3D4955194n&partner=news&vert=News&autoPlayVid=false&releaseURL=http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=BMsqDTWt6pm_R0swFyR97j84s_bf74T F&name=cbsPlayer&allowScriptAccess=always&wmode=transparent&embedded=y&scale=noscale&rv=n&salign=tl" allowfullscreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" height="324" width="425">
Watch CBS Videos Online (http://www.cbs.com)

goadam1
05-03-09, 09:19 PM
boomers vs. gen x.

lakedaemonian
05-03-09, 09:56 PM
boomers vs. gen x.

Yeah...I reckon we will be seeing some pretty fiery intergenerational conflict.

High voter turnout boomer retirees pitted against debt crushed Gen-X/Y who learn how to vote.

One VERY scary number I just read lately is the shocking state of the supposed average starting salary for Liberal Arts degree grads....mid $30K's......basically the same average as when I received my undergrad 15+ years ago....but now with tuition costs 2-3 times higher and truly staggering student debt.

Paying 2-3 times as much TODAY, for the same revenue stream as 15+ years ago, combined with far higher cost of living = catastrophe not just for the higher education industry, but also those who are the unfortunate product of it.

BrianL
05-04-09, 02:08 AM
I'm 29. I started putting money in a ROTH IRA when I was 17. Once I had a 401k at the age of 21, I put in up to company matching (6% of my salary).

I've done a bunch of reallocations since finding itulip last fall, but up to that point I was mostly in mutual funds (S&P style indices, some real estate, etc) with a small percentage in bond funds and some cash.

My overall return on investment is something like -5% at this point. Many of those who started later than I are probably worse off. One of my coworkers who started working (and saving) just as the bubble picked up steam is closer to -30%.

Given that younger people probably either:

1) Didn't save and don't own houses
2) Saved and are now negative
3) Bought a house/condo at peak prices and don't have much in other investments.

I'm curious what the long term investment behavior will be. I haven't talked with people about it for a month or so, but at that point the general sentiment was that our current state was simply the investment opportunity of their lifetime as everything was so much cheaper than they'd ever seen before. A couple started maxing out their 401k investments in January under the belief that the major companies out there couldn't possibly fail...

Jeff
05-04-09, 11:34 AM
I just turned 50, and I'm doing much less well than 10 years ago. EJ and I were investors in small technology companies and making money hand over fist. Net worth is down something like 90%, but I have a lot of peers who did worse in the internet bubble, many losing all of their tech stock millions.

It's not bad enough to need a job yet, but it's been one hell of a decade for investing, even when you know that the conventional wisdom is wrong.

My 28 year old nephew got his first job in 2003 that paid the same as my starting job in 1983, and that was in the depths of a huge unemployment mess. His college education cost four times what mine did.

jtabeb
05-04-09, 03:17 PM
I just turned 50, and I'm doing much less well than 10 years ago. EJ and I were investors in small technology companies and making money hand over fist. Net worth is down something like 90%, but I have a lot of peers who did worse in the internet bubble, many losing all of their tech stock millions.

It's not bad enough to need a job yet, but it's been one hell of a decade for investing, even when you know that the conventional wisdom is wrong.

My 28 year old nephew got his first job in 2003 that paid the same as my starting job in 1983, and that was in the depths of a huge unemployment mess. His college education cost four times what mine did.

One of my friends quit the air force after he was up to $5 Mil on Qualcom. He sold his stock for $250K. He is still working and now his wife has a job as well.

The Air Force is the only way I could afford to go to school, I suspect I'll point my kids in that direction as well.

rogermexico
05-04-09, 11:21 PM
I just turned 50, and I'm doing much less well than 10 years ago. EJ and I were investors in small technology companies and making money hand over fist. Net worth is down something like 90%, but I have a lot of peers who did worse in the internet bubble, many losing all of their tech stock millions.

It's not bad enough to need a job yet, but it's been one hell of a decade for investing, even when you know that the conventional wisdom is wrong.

My 28 year old nephew got his first job in 2003 that paid the same as my starting job in 1983, and that was in the depths of a huge unemployment mess. His college education cost four times what mine did.

You must have had hellacious paper wealth! I thought I recall you saying you were smart enough to sell 100 K shares of CSCO at $62. I remember I couldn't get my dad to sell it in the 50's and he rode it all the way down (Buy and Hold all the way)

I guess beyond a point it is all relative. I am probably "worth' a lot less than you but about 50% of my net worth accumulated over the past 15 years is investment earnings, so I feel fortunate. I have also had no significant drawdown in the current turmoil (actually I am up a bit after '08 due to shorting). I am not greedy, but have worked very hard to get where I am and would like to avoid being poor again.

Earlier in my career I was often ridiculed for pathological "insourcing" and excessive frugality. (Who ever heard of doctor doing all his own taxes and electrical work?) Now as a result I have more and am accustomed to less. I can also buy a few luxuries on the cheap now and then.

lakedaemonian
05-05-09, 12:14 AM
I just turned 40.

My late 20's and 30's were spent in the following manner:

Late 20's as one of the first outside management hires for a biggie household internet name......pay was poop....but stock options were big.

Employment agreement prevented me from exercising options outside of narrow and uncooperative share price windows.

What I did exercise I put it ALL straight back into the equity markets and continued to live a pauper's existence working 7 days a week.

Since pretty much 99% of my net worth was tied up in paper share options and wholly owned equities......and the bubble kept getting pushed higher.....my equity account with Morgan Stanley Dean Witter was getting churned like butter.......my thief/broker made many, many thousands of commissions off of me in a single year due to my investment ignorance.........which turned out to be a very affordably priced financial self-education in retrospect.

Hundreds of co-workers were sitting on high 6 figure, dozens with 7 figure, and a small number of co-workers with 8 figure paper wealth or more.

They did stupid sh!t like buying junk...or worse.....did nothing and thought they'd be worth another 10x in 5 years........pure, unrefined greed.

I did the only logical thing......I quit to escape the trading window and converted all of my negligible cost basis share options into cash, closed my brokerage account, and after taxes took all of my money overseas and out of the US Dollar when it was actually king.

I've spent the last decade growing it substantially in my own businesses....and trying to educate myself and understand these goliath financial disconnections surrounding us thinking I'm the only crazy one......until I found iTulip.

It now feels like the SAME temporarily peaceful eye of the hurricane as I experienced nearly a decade ago(but different) and am once again in wealth preservation mode.

I managed to avoid losing it all once before, largely due to luck, partially due to common sense going against the tide.

I've dodged this most recent financial salvo very well.....in large part due to the education I received here....

I reflect daily on my good luck and good fortune thus far....I do NOT take it for granted.....my motivation is the many personal financial horror stories from my old co-workers.....NO WAY am I going to drown like them.

AT the moment and for the foreseeable future, my family's financial plan take precedence over EVERYTHING......my success or failure is the single biggest contributor to our future freedom or slavery.

My kids are not going to be slaves.

rogermexico
05-05-09, 12:58 AM
I just turned 40.

...
I managed to avoid losing it all once before, largely due to luck, partially due to common sense going against the tide.

I've dodged this most recent financial salvo very well.....in large part due to the education I received here....

I reflect daily on my good luck and good fortune thus far....I do NOT take it for granted.....my motivation is the many personal financial horror stories from my old co-workers.....NO WAY am I going to drown like them.

AT the moment and for the foreseeable future, my family's financial plan take precedence over EVERYTHING......my success or failure is the single biggest contributor to our future freedom or slavery.

My kids are not going to be slaves.

What a great story..inspirational, actually.:)

jk
05-05-09, 10:25 PM
i started practicing in 1976 and opened my first ira and keogh [kind of a paleo-401k] accounts immediately, maximizing my contributions. a few years later i incorporated so i could set up a self-managed pension plan which allowed me to use futures and options, etc. i stopped making any contributions to my pension plan over 20 years ago when my weekly volatility became greater than my allowable annual contribution. unfortunately that was a function of relatively high volatility, but it seemed stupid to defer taking income at that point. note i only saved for about 10 years, but i saved early and aggressively, and compounding was on my side.

Jay
05-05-09, 11:26 PM
I'm 36 and am lucky enough to be ahead today. I saved most of my money as a kid working as a caddy, busboy and waiter, not much but a start. I have always been able to live on little. I also opened a Roth IRA and contributed for many years until I started med school; once I got a "real job" I started contributing to a 403b in 2004 and still max it out but have it set up through a brokerage account now. Through college, med school and residency I ended up with 150k in debt but also cashed out of the tech bubble near enough to the top after a gut feeling with a 400% return on all those trips around the 18th hole. I sat in cash until 2003 and went back in the market at the start of the Iraq war. I figured the world couldn't be as bad as it seemed. It worked out.

Instead of paying back my loan, I eventually used the cash and my new income as a doc to buy a huge condo in a major American city in February 2004 at 4% interest only. I bought it to flip it and put a lot of additional work into it and learned basic plumbing, electrical, and wood working in the meantime which was a bonus. It was a nice place with a great view, a concierge, valet, etc. and my wife and I had a blast living there. That was when I started paying more attention to my money and started reading. I eventually ended up at itulip and, while it wasn't the sole determinant, this site, and its membership, helped convince me to sell my condo in April 2006. Thank god. Let me say that again: THANK GOD! I was fortunate to take the tax free gains and we now rent. We would be debt serfs otherwise, for sure. That was the most important financial decision in my life.

I didn't give EJ's warning that the market was about to get crushed in Dec. 2007 as much credence as I should have, and, frankly, was too naive to understand the full ramifications of a debt deflation, and much of my energy plays got absolutely creamed. I was down close to 40% at one point. In the interim, I have gotten back to even through shorts which I have sold much higher than lower for the most part. My biggest gain was after reading a post and chart by Bart which got me off my ass to sell. Kudos Bart! I have also learned to tune out much of the financial BS I was listening to prior. I have been buying physical PM's slow and steady since selling the condo with the extra money I save each month. Without itulip, I would be in a much more precarious, uninformed state. Many of my friends, especially the doc's, are leveraged to the hilt and have little wiggle room if needed, sad to say

cjppjc
05-06-09, 06:51 AM
I'm 36 and am lucky enough to be ahead today. I saved most of my money as a kid working as a caddy, busboy and waiter, not much but a start. I have always been able to live on little.


I didn't give EJ's warning that the market was about to get crushed in Dec. 2007 as much credence as I should have, and, frankly, was too naive to understand the full ramifications of a debt deflation,


Good going. It's never what you earn. It's what you spend. The finances of the U.S. government prove that.

Big dummy. No just kidding. I wish I had found iTulip earlier. I would have dumpmed all my mining shares if I had.

GRG55
05-06-09, 08:10 AM
I'm 36 and am lucky enough to be ahead today. I saved most of my money as a kid working as a caddy, busboy and waiter, not much but a start. I have always been able to live on little. I also opened a Roth IRA and contributed for many years until I started med school; once I got a "real job" I started contributing to a 403b in 2004 and still max it out but have it set up through a brokerage account now. Through college, med school and residency I ended up with 150k in debt but also cashed out of the tech bubble near enough to the top after a gut feeling with a 400% return on all those trips around the 18th hole. I sat in cash until 2003 and went back in the market at the start of the Iraq war. I figured the world couldn't be as bad as it seemed. It worked out.

Instead of paying back my loan, I eventually used the cash and my new income as a doc to buy a huge condo in a major American city in February 2004 at 4% interest only. I bought it to flip it and put a lot of additional work into it and learned basic plumbing, electrical, and wood working in the meantime which was a bonus. It was a nice place with a great view, a concierge, valet, etc. and my wife and I had a blast living there. That was when I started paying more attention to my money and started reading. I eventually ended up at itulip and, while it wasn't the sole determinant, this site, and its membership, helped convince me to sell my condo in April 2006. Thank god. Let me say that again: THANK GOD! I was fortunate to take the tax free gains and we now rent. We would be debt serfs otherwise, for sure. That was the most important financial decision in my life.

I didn't give EJ's warning that the market was about to get crushed in Dec. 2007 as much credence as I should have, and, frankly, was too naive to understand the full ramifications of a debt deflation, and much of my energy plays got absolutely creamed. I was down close to 40% at one point. In the interim, I have gotten back to even through shorts which I have sold much higher than lower for the most part. My biggest gain was after reading a post and chart by Bart which got me off my ass to sell. Kudos Bart! I have also learned to tune out much of the financial BS I was listening to prior. I have been buying physical PM's slow and steady since selling the condo with the extra money I save each month. Without itulip, I would be in a much more precarious, uninformed state. Many of my friends, especially the doc's, are leveraged to the hilt and have little wiggle room if needed, sad to say

Well done, Jay!

Contemptuous
05-06-09, 07:45 PM
Exemplary story, and fine post Jay.


I'm 36 and am lucky enough to be ahead today. I saved most of my money as a kid working as a caddy, busboy and waiter, not much but a start. I have always been able to live on little. I also opened a Roth IRA and contributed for many years until I started med school; once I got a "real job" I started contributing to a 403b in 2004 and still max it out but have it set up through a brokerage account now. Through college, med school and residency I ended up with 150k in debt but also cashed out of the tech bubble near enough to the top after a gut feeling with a 400% return on all those trips around the 18th hole. I sat in cash until 2003 and went back in the market at the start of the Iraq war. I figured the world couldn't be as bad as it seemed. It worked out.

Instead of paying back my loan, I eventually used the cash and my new income as a doc to buy a huge condo in a major American city in February 2004 at 4% interest only. I bought it to flip it and put a lot of additional work into it and learned basic plumbing, electrical, and wood working in the meantime which was a bonus. It was a nice place with a great view, a concierge, valet, etc. and my wife and I had a blast living there. That was when I started paying more attention to my money and started reading. I eventually ended up at itulip and, while it wasn't the sole determinant, this site, and its membership, helped convince me to sell my condo in April 2006. Thank god. Let me say that again: THANK GOD! I was fortunate to take the tax free gains and we now rent. We would be debt serfs otherwise, for sure. That was the most important financial decision in my life.

I didn't give EJ's warning that the market was about to get crushed in Dec. 2007 as much credence as I should have, and, frankly, was too naive to understand the full ramifications of a debt deflation, and much of my energy plays got absolutely creamed. I was down close to 40% at one point. In the interim, I have gotten back to even through shorts which I have sold much higher than lower for the most part. My biggest gain was after reading a post and chart by Bart which got me off my ass to sell. Kudos Bart! I have also learned to tune out much of the financial BS I was listening to prior. I have been buying physical PM's slow and steady since selling the condo with the extra money I save each month. Without itulip, I would be in a much more precarious, uninformed state. Many of my friends, especially the doc's, are leveraged to the hilt and have little wiggle room if needed, sad to say