First McCain vs Obama Debate

[FRED]

Thread to discuss the first debate. What do you think? Does either candidate express a good grasp the crisis facing our economy?

[JoeSixpack]

Missed all the econ topics...

From the rest i would credit Obama for being more cooperative with the world powers and not screaming "isolation" at everybody like McCain does. Because its the US that gets more and more isolated itself. Which would be better for economic ties, see Africa, Russia, China, and, errr.. all the rest of the world.

Obama also said that no nation in economic decline was able to maintain military power projection in history, a statement that might be far more visionary than he would probably like.

Oh, and the investment plans of Obama for Energy, Infrastructre etc. could have come right out of an essay from EJ. Maybe it did :)

Btw im based in europe so i cant vote anyways

[reallife]

I saw the debate and as an independent voter I think the single most important factor regarding the candidate's positions on foreign policy was left unspoken. Both candidates have very resonable positions on dealing with the Middle East, Iran North Korea, etc. I do lean more toward Obama's concept of discussions with our enemies. After all, the concept worked very well for the 40 years of the Cold War.

Still, the overriding foreign policy factor was not mentioned by either candidate. That factor, still unspoken, will give my vote to Obama on election day.

I simply cannot take the risk that an airhead named Sarah Palin, as likeable of a person as she is, would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. She is the least qualified person for the national executive as I have seen in my lifetime. Personally, I like her and think she has a lot of appealing attributes but not for national executive office. The President is our chief foreign policy maker and her knowledge of the world is barely skin deep. The thought of Palin, someday, sitting in the president's chair makes me shudder!

[D-Mack]

Missed all the econ topics...

From the rest i would credit Obama for being more cooperative with the world powers and not screaming "isolation" at everybody like McCain does. Because its the US that gets more and more isolated itself. Which would be better for economic ties, see Africa, Russia, China, and, errr.. all the rest of the world.

Obama also said that no nation in economic decline was able to maintain military power projection in history, a statement that might be far more visionary than he would probably like.

Oh, and the investment plans of Obama for Energy, Infrastructre etc. could have come right out of an essay from EJ. Maybe it did :)

Btw im based in europe so i cant vote anyways

If he wants to challenge China it probably won't be through discussions.

OBAMA: Oh, there's no doubt. Look, over the last eight years, this administration, along with Senator McCain, have been solely focused on Iraq. That has been their priority. That has been where all our resources have gone.

In the meantime, bin Laden is still out there. He is not captured. He is not killed. Al Qaida is resurgent.

In the meantime, we've got challenges, for example, with China, where we are borrowing billions of dollars. They now hold a trillion dollars' worth of our debt. And they are active in countries like -- in regions like Latin America, and Asia, and Africa. They are -- the conspicuousness of their presence is only matched by our absence, because we've been focused on Iraq.

We have weakened our capacity to project power around the world because we have viewed everything through this single lens, not to mention, look at our economy. We are now spending $10 billion or more every month.

...

http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=16523907

[we_are_toast]

Thread to discuss the first debate. What do you think? Does either candidate express a good grasp the crisis facing our economy?

If you're looking to gauge the understanding the candidates have of the crises in our economy, don't look to a nationally televised debate for the answer. It's theater for the swing voters. Look to the economic advisers that surround them. They both understand there is a crisis, the question is, do they understand what needs to be done to solve the problem? McCain? Absolutely NOT! Obama? Not sure yet, but the alternative energy/infrastructure bubble will buy time.

[Jeff]

With a degree in Economics, it's frustrating to watch politicians of all flavors try to grasp something fairly complex, and certainly outside of the realm of conventional wisdom. I don't see any national figure who gets it, except maybe Hank & Benny, but I don't trust their agendas. A bailout at this point would just be another nail in the coffin, since, as Eric pointed out so well, so frequently and so early, this has been a 25 year, unsustainable fantasy economy.

Time to pay the piper.

PS: Obama won it by a mile.

[we_are_toast]

One thing I like to do is watch the news coverage after the debates. Often times, how the debate is reported has more influence on swing voters than the actual debate. One thing I couldn't help but notice was that Joe Biden was making the rounds on the networks doing his job in saying how great his guy was and how bad the other was, but Palin was nowhere to be found. In fact, each networked stated that they were denied an interview with her.

After the disastrous interview on CBS, she has become such a liability to the campaign they can't grant any interviews with her. To not be able to have your VP candidate go around the country and get the free press by doing interviews with the networks or in the local markets is a huge disadvantage.

Most pundits viewed the VP pick as not very important to the campaign, I don't think they'll be saying that anymore.

[babbittd]

At least Obama momentarily mentioned China and the financing of deficit spending. That is a start. Most Americans don't know at all about the role that foreign central banks and private investors play in our debt, never mind that, most don't know about the role that the Fed plays!

One of two major points of contention from the debate that are being heavily discussed on the true believer (GOP and Dem) websites is the "Kissinger" exchange. Well I watched the CNN program that Kissinger appeared on with the four other former sec. of state and Obama did not lie or mischaracterize his statements at all. The transcript of the event proves this. Even Kissinger's comment as released by the McCain campaign does not say that Obama did that. One can read into the quote and figure out how the question was phrased to Kissinger by the McCain campaign.

Also, did McCain really say that he wouldn't meet with the P.M. of Spain? Hahaha...McCain is completely out of touch with reality in my opinion from up in the hills of rural NorCal.

***

I too thought Obama won by a mile.

The latest Rasmussen daily tracking poll, conducted prior to the debates, has Obama up, 50% to 44%.

I think the new polls will show that Obama won this debate in the viewpoint of "independent and undecided voters" by no less than 55% to 45%.

[jtabeb]

PS: Obama won it by a mile.

So someone else DID watch the same debate I did.

[babbittd]

Even on Fox News they are having trouble denying that Obama won the debate.

GOP pollster and consultant Frank Luntz had his roomful of undecided voters. A majority of them thought that McCain came off as tired, old and out of touch with reality and all of them thought that Obama won the debate.

Over on InTrade, McCain's buy chart looks similar to that of the USDX.

[JoeSixpack]

Looking forward to VP debate.

[babbittd]

The two highlights of the debate for me were McCain's proposal for a mortgage bailout and the reaction of the hippies in the bar that I was watching it in when Obama said, "I am an favor of nuclear energy". Right before that I told them that he would say it and they didn't believe me. As I've said before here on Itulip, Obama is the guy that brings American Democrats lefties on board with nuclear power.

[sadsack]

IMHO this election is (oh, the ironing!) best summed up by Marx:

"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."

Admittedly, as a Gen-Xer, my experience of the national political process is necessarily more limited than the more august iTulip members, but I can't recall a more farcical election in the last 30+ years as the present one.

If "Deep Capture" is to be believed, I think this election, whatever the outcome, is simply an acknowledgement of the fait accompli.

It's as if we're stuck in steerage on the Titanic, and we're hoping that Captain Bligh can save the ship . . .

:(:eek:

Hey, it was, in the end, a nice ~100 year party . . .

[babbittd]

Brokaw asked (Obama first) if the financial situation would get worse before getting better. Perfect opportunity for the next President to step up and deliver some truth to the Americans watching. Of course his answer was "No....." from there some talk about 21st century regulation.

Does winning or losing hinge on being honest in this case? I bet a lot of people groaned when he said that. It is getting worse by the minute how is that not obvious to anyone at this point?

[metalman]

Brokaw asked (Obama first) if the financial situation would get worse before getting better. Perfect opportunity for the next President to step up and deliver some truth to the Americans watching. Of course his answer was "No....." from there some talk about 21st century regulation.

Does winning or losing hinge on being honest in this case? I bet a lot of people groaned when he said that. It is getting worse by the minute how is that not obvious to anyone at this point?

gave me pause, too. wide opening for a key rant... 'you assholes wrecked the economy!'

oh, i forgot. obama is fire econ financed, too.

[babbittd]

gave me pause, too. wide opening for a key rant... 'you assholes wrecked the economy!'

oh, i forgot. obama is fire econ financed, too.

I thought the wide-opening for that rant was when McCain laid the blame completely at the feet of Fannie, Freddie and the Dems. If not F.I.R.E. financed, Obama would have come back with something other than the unimaginative blame it on the last eight years, i.e. the Bush administration.

But to say that things won't get worse before they get better? That is just asinine at this point. edit: Obama quicly answered "no" as if it is guaranteed. I am the #1 proponent of the theory that one of the jobs of the President of USA, Inc. is to promote confidence, but he still campaigning. Inflation + Recession = change.

[phirang]

Who cares... so long as the ROW runs muppet economies and shitty governments, the Fed can print with impunity and retain surprisingly good purchasing power.

I've lost total interest in choosing between Chavez or Saddam, but I did bet $100 for fun on Chavez winning.

[marvenger]

the reason the ROW runs muppet economies and has shitty governments is because the US is pulling the strings. If this crisis causes the US to lose grip of a few strings then the muppet economies and shitty governments will improve accordingly. Not sure if I'd want to be in a country with few resources and a drastically reduced manufacturing base in this situation.

[babbittd]

Did you all catch it last night when McCain called Obama, "Senator Government"?

I was listening to the debate in the car and almost lost it in laughter.....Hello Freudian slip!

[we_are_toast]

Obama didn't win this debate, but McCain lost it. Obama was too calm, while McCain was very passionate. Unfortunately for McCain, after the 1st 1/2 hour his passion turned to anger, condescension, and disdain. His body language was horrible and the flash polls showed his favorable ratings dropping among independents.

You can never learn very much from these debates, but my gut feeling is that Obama is going after the alt-e bubble and it will be one of the highest priorities. I think this could be the turning point from Ka to Poom. Given that treasury and the Fed is tossing trillions around like it was nothing, I don't think additional defecit spending is going to be an issue.

[Tulpen]

What do you think? Does either candidate express a good grasp the crisis facing our economy?
No, they are both smooth talkers.

This one is hilarious though:

http://images.theage.com.au/2008/10/16/236440/svMCCAIN-420x0.jpg

[metalman]

nuff said...

http://i33.tinypic.com/4j2jgp.jpg

[tombat1913]

I simply cannot take the risk that an airhead named Sarah Palin, as likeable of a person as she is, would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. She is the least qualified person for the national executive as I have seen in my lifetime. Personally, I like her and think she has a lot of appealing attributes but not for national executive office. The President is our chief foreign policy maker and her knowledge of the world is barely skin deep. The thought of Palin, someday, sitting in the president's chair makes me shudder!

That's why they picked her, her "appealing attributes". I wish I was joking.

[babbittd]

Obama didn't win this debate, but McCain lost it. Obama was too calm, while McCain was very passionate. Unfortunately for McCain, after the 1st 1/2 hour his passion turned to anger, condescension, and disdain. His body language was horrible and the flash polls showed his favorable ratings dropping among independents.

You can never learn very much from these debates, but my gut feeling is that Obama is going after the alt-e bubble and it will be one of the highest priorities. I think this could be the turning point from Ka to Poom. Given that treasury and the Fed is tossing trillions around like it was nothing, I don't think additional defecit spending is going to be an issue.

are you kidding me, Obama seemingly can't stop talking about the alt-e bubble themes.

[Rajiv]

This is a good one

Obama Roasts McCain at Al Smith Dinner

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