Plentiful Oil from Algae and Sun

[FRED]

Breaking from the peak oil doom, consider this pitch for "Endless Energy from Algae Biofuel: Closed-Loop Photo Bioreactor from Valcent." Claims to be able to produce 20,000 gallons of oil per year from one acre of sun-drenched land.

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[Rajiv]

Sorry he says 20,000 gallons per year and not 20,000 barrels per year -- actually converts to 476 barrels -- but not necessarily equivalent to 476 barrels of Light Sweet Crude. But still could be a useful technology at capturing sunlight

At the best current solar cell technology (35%-40%) we would be producing direct electricity equal to the calorific value in 1850 barrels of oil per acre per year. So if we were using oil to produce electricity, the ratios improve much further.

[oddlots]

What's that in cats?

[metalman]

What's that in cats?

20,000 gallons of cat diesel? whew!

http://www.angelicalcat.com/puzzles/images/justcats8611-320x229.jpghttp://www.angelicalcat.com/puzzles/images/justcats8611-320x229.jpg
http://www.angelicalcat.com/puzzles/images/justcats8611-320x229.jpghttp://www.angelicalcat.com/puzzles/images/justcats8611-320x229.jpg

[Rajiv]

I believe 20,00 US gallons of diesel would require 30,280 dead fully grown cats as per the bild article (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1534821.html)

Though I believe that the cat part is a hoax -
Inventor Denies Dead Cat Fuel Ingredient (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1713598,00.html)

http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,581424_1,00.gif
A spokesman for the newspaper told Reuters that the stories were meant to show that cat remains could "in theory" be used to make fuel with Koch's patented method, adding that the author of the story said Koch had never told him directly that he had used dead cats as the story implied.

[Rajiv]

Metalman,

Not quite an accurate depiction - you need a matrix of 174 by 174 cats

But nice try anyway! ;)

[Nervous Drake]

1/10th of the entire state of New Mexico? How about we just sacrifice that whole state and trade algae oil to the rest of the world?

Cool video. Makes me feel happier before I go to bed. I think I should focus more on the positive aspects of this whole debacle otherwise some day I will go insane (if I'm not already).

[Andreuccio]

cat remains could "in theory" be used to make fuel with Koch's patented method,

Better still, they could use Shrodinger's cat. The cat would be dead and yet alive simultaneously. Made into fuel and happily playing with a ball of yarn. At least until we opened the box.

[Olduvai]

No mentioning of the most important aspect of this nice idea. What is the ERoEI of this setup ? Otherwise people are made hopeful with another scientific scheme that doesn't work in practice like driving your car on hydrogin.

[idianov]

It seems that they need lots of water to grow algae. Where are they going to get enough water supply for a commercial plant producing "endless energy" in the desert of New Mexico? :confused: Where is the endless supply of water to be coming from?

Igor

[metalman]

No mentioning of the most important aspect of this nice idea. What is the ERoEI of this setup ? Otherwise people are made hopeful with another scientific scheme that doesn't work in practice like driving your car on hydrogin.

if you believe them...

Valcent's Releases Profitable Initial Production Estimates for its Vertical Vegetable Growing Systems (http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080313/0374771.html)

EL PASO, TEXAS--(MARKET WIRE)--Mar 13, 2008 -- Valcent Products Inc. (OTC BB:VCTPF.OB (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=vctpf.ob) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=vctpf.ob)) -Data from its fully operational field test plant has confirmed commercial production potential with several companies expressing interest to build out commercial plants on a joint venture basis. A commercial module of one-eighth acre (5,445 square feet) is estimated to have capital costs of $565,000; using a wholesale price for leafy lettuce of $1.10 per head, may have gross annual revenues in excess of $1,300,000 with earnings before tax of approximately $505,000 supporting management's estimated 89% internal rate of return over 10 years.

[Olduvai]

if you believe them...

Valcent's Releases Profitable Initial Production Estimates for its Vertical Vegetable Growing Systems (http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080313/0374771.html)

EL PASO, TEXAS--(MARKET WIRE)--Mar 13, 2008 -- Valcent Products Inc. (OTC BB:VCTPF.OB (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=vctpf.ob) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=vctpf.ob)) -Data from its fully operational field test plant has confirmed commercial production potential with several companies expressing interest to build out commercial plants on a joint venture basis. A commercial module of one-eighth acre (5,445 square feet) is estimated to have capital costs of $565,000; using a wholesale price for leafy lettuce of $1.10 per head, may have gross annual revenues in excess of $1,300,000 with earnings before tax of approximately $505,000 supporting management's estimated 89% internal rate of return over 10 years.
Vegetables and oil are two completely different things. As far as i can see this is just a better greenhouse development and very useful if you have low acreage near densily populated areas. Otherwise tradional greenhouse methods are far cheaper (lettuce of $ 0.10 per head).
Even ethanol has just an eroei of 1.3. Therefore not useable if you still want to eat as well. I think this setup comes in the same category.

[Rajiv]

Metal man, that is for their High Density Growth System (http://www.valcent.net/s/HDVGS.asp?ReportID=264273)-- which also is quite useful. This appears to require 5% of the water necessary for typical field crops.

However for their Algae system -- "High Density Vertical Reactor (http://www.valcent.net/s/Ecotech.asp?ReportID=182039)"

Current data projects high yields of algae biomass, which will be harvested and processed into algal oil for biofuel feedstock and ingredients in food, pharmaceutical, and health and beauty products at a significantly lower cost than comparable oil-producing crops such as palm and soyabean (soybean).
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Algae, like all plants, require carbon dioxide, water with nutrients and sunlight for growth. The HDVB bioreactor technology is ideal for location adjacent to heavy producers of carbon dioxide such as coal fired power plants, refineries or manufacturing facilities, as the absorption of CO2 by the algae significantly reduces greenhouse gases. These reductions represent value in the form of Certified Emission Reduction credits, so-called carbon credits
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Valcent's HDVB bioreactor system can be deployed on non-arable land, requires very little water due to its closed circuit process, does not incur significant labor costs and does not employ fossil fuel burning equipment, unlike traditional food/biofuel crops, like soy and palm oil. They require large agricultural acreage, huge volumes of water and chemicals, and traditional farm equipment and labor. They are also much less productive than the HDVB process: soybean, palm oil and conventional pond-grown algae typically yield 48 gallons, 635 gallons and 10,000 gallons per acre per year respectively.


They appear to want to leverage carbon credits. I think this could be a viable project -- particularly as feed for plastics and other products.

I still think that photovoltaics may be a better long term prospect for using sunlight as an electricity source.

[Fox]

Hi everyone, thought I'd pop in with a quick quip while I'm lurching through as I was once an algae oil fan, but have since converted.

No mentioning of the most important aspect of this nice idea. What is the ERoEI of this setup ?
One thing that can help simplify the ERoEI issue is to also remember that "matter is neither created nor destroyed". What tends to get missed in the Algae oil discussion is that all those godzillion gallons of oil from a postage stamp size piece of land will take a godzillion Kilograms of fertilizer to produce.

and guess how fertilizer prices are doing these days
http://www.stockinterview.com/News/04262007/fertilizer-price.gif
And also keep in mind that the Nitrogen part of that picture is from Natural gas

so once again, Food or Fuel?

[FRED]

Hi everyone, thought I'd pop in with a quick quip while I'm lurching through as I was once an algae oil fan, but have since converted.


One thing that can help simplify the ERoEI issue is to also remember that "matter is neither created nor destroyed". What tends to get missed in the Algae oil discussion is that all those godzillion gallons of oil from a postage stamp size piece of land will take a godzillion Kilograms of fertilizer to produce.

and guess how fertilizer prices are doing these days
http://www.stockinterview.com/News/04262007/fertilizer-price.gif
And also keep in mind that the Nitrogen part of that picture is from Natural gas

so once again, Food or Fuel?

Thanks, Fox, for ruining a perfectly good fantasy :)

That said, the advantage of low water use may make the technology a winner in places where there is tons of oil and not a lot of water, say, in Dubai.

[touchring]

Some algae can grow in sea water, you can suck the water from the ocean.

[Fox]

Some algae can grow in sea water, you can suck the water from the ocean.
Always a possibility and there are a few species of native sea water algae that have a high lipid content, but the down side is that you no longer have a closed system and run the risk of introducing a predator into your sea of juicy high fat algae. Sterilizing the water is a possibility, but then you're increasing your inputs (chemicals/electricity) and thus your cost.

I think there is good potential for algae oil in niche solutions. But with most energy alternatives its another band aid to address the massive head trauma of Peak Oil.