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Spartacus
04-05-08, 05:20 PM
if y'all is legal english (assume it is for now)

what is the equivalent of you're ?

Y'all're ?

as in (my vocabulary practice for today)

y'all're gunna hafta lurn me some english grammer y'know.

Starving Steve
04-07-08, 01:11 AM
Who = whom to-day, but the grammar nazis still beg to keep a subtle difference between who and whom. (Whom is used the objective case in extremely formal writing.)

English to-day is extemely informal because business demands it, but the grammar nazis are a century behind the time.

And then the issue of the spelling: There are rules for the usage of the hyphen.

Bull crap! Any two closely related words can be hyphenated, at the choice of the writer, not the grammar nazis.

But you can't argue with these grammar nazis in the schools, so just ignore them. Business ignores them, and business sets the rules for English, not the schools. :)

Writing has become relaxed. Meaning must be clear right from the start. So paragraphs must be short: one, two, or three sentences at most.

Rambling is not tolerated in writing. There is just no time to-day to ramble or to read rambling.

Consequently, sentences have become shorter too. And many sentences now begin with conjunctions. Beginning a sentence with a conjunction was formerly considered to be bad grammar, but not any more.

But don't tell this to the grammar nazis in the schools. They are hopeless.

zoog
04-07-08, 01:43 AM
if y'all is legal english (assume it is for now)

what is the equivalent of you're ?

Y'all're ?

as in (my vocabulary practice for today)

y'all're gunna hafta lurn me some english grammer y'know.

I have actually heard this ("y'all're"). I've also heard the contracted "are" omitted but implied.

Starving Steve
04-07-08, 02:01 AM
A writing tip: Avoid the use of contractions. Write-out all the words.

There are three reasons for this:

1.) Contractions are difficult to spell;
2.) The meaning of some contractions is not crystal clear to all readers;
3.) Hillbillies use contractions, and it was the hillbillies in the South that gave us these Republican morons who are now running the schools and the government in the USA.:p

The Outback Oracle
04-07-08, 02:42 AM
OK, I'll bite! I'm a grammar nazi of sorts I guess. I am a bit older than the average bear on here and that may explain a lot. However, I must insist that I am not old enough to be a century behind.
In my time I have seen a general deterioration in language used, and, more importantly, a deterioration in the ability to to think about and express complex ideas. We are not talking about itulipers here but the average bloke in the street. There has been a general dumbing down.
The purpose of language is not only to exchange information at a basic level. The development of sciense and civilisation has depended on our abilty to communicate complex and abstract ideas. Now it might be said that what is a small change here or a minute change there? That's true. However the culmulative effects of a thousand small changes can be disastrous. Indeed it can result in people from one part of the nation not being able to communicate with people from another. The idea that anything is OK as long as the person we are talking to 'gets the drift' will lead us eventually to communicate in guttural sounds of limited variety. The problem is that in the decline of language, we have no standard against which we can say..."this is as far as it goes" The ultimate end to all this is found in "A Clockwork Orange" by Anthony Burgess. Anyone who wants to debate this topic should at least have read this book.

Last, but not least, the sheer beauty of our language should not be devalued. If anyone needs an example of this compare the writings of Dickens or Somerset Maugham with the barren wasteland that is Dan Browne. If you haven't read any Dickens or Maugham lately please do so before having the temerity to disagree with me.
Good use of language can evoke the emotions
Just as
the beauty of the rose
the sweet taste of candy
and the delicate aroma of a candle

Now just one more thing.........
Disagreement and non-concurrence cause me elevation of the systolic blood pressure, hyperperistalsis of the gastric mucosa, excessive secretion of the digestive acids, and a general feeling of unease........and I become a most unpleasant bastard!
Cheers

Spartacus
04-07-08, 01:00 PM
Surely this depends on the audience.


A writing tip: Avoid the use of contractions. Write-out all the words.

There are three reasons for this:

1.) Contractions are difficult to spell;
2.) The meaning of some contractions is not crystal clear to all readers;
3.) Hillbillies use contractions, and it was the hillbillies in the South that gave us these Republican morons who are now running the schools and the government in the USA.:p

Andreuccio
04-07-08, 02:54 PM
A writing tip: Avoid the use of contractions. Write-out all the words.

There are three reasons for this:

1.) Contractions are difficult to spell;
2.) The meaning of some contractions is not crystal clear to all readers;
3.) Hillbillies use contractions, and it was the hillbillies in the South that gave us these Republican morons who are now running the schools and the government in the USA.:p


Who = whom to-day, but the grammar nazis still beg to keep a subtle difference between who and whom. (Whom is used the objective case in extremely formal writing.)

Do not ask who the bell rings for. It rings for you.

Much better than the original! Easier to spell, don't (sorry, do not) have to worry about silly objective case rules, no confusing words like "tolls" or "thee", etc. To Hell with Hemingway, John Donne, and the Grammar Nazis. (Sorry, was I being a Grammar Nazi by capitalizing "Grammar Nazi"?)

sadsack
04-07-08, 05:52 PM
I've been a carpetbagger in Texas for over 10 years now, and can reasonably say that y'all modifies the rules of verb conjugation.

Specifically, the function of the helper verbs "to be," "to do," is subsumed within "y'all," and infinitives are reparsed and vowel shifted.

E.g. "You are going to have to cut it out" becomes "Y'all gunna hafta cut it out" The helper verb "are" is dropped, while the infinitives in "going | to have | to cut" are split and reamalgamated with other words: " going to | have to | cut --> "gunna hafta cut"


Bonus: The plural form of y'all is: "all y'all" :cool:

Starving Steve
04-07-08, 09:35 PM
A Spanish-speaking student struggling to learn basic English came to me in a classroom with the following question:


"Maestro, ?Que es en espanol la palabra, gonna en ingles?"


I told her to never use this word, gonna. Gonna = going to . I had her say "going to" as fast as she could say it. Then she got the hang of gonna because she started to say, gonna.


Gonna is the hillbilly language of the Republicans who run the school system. It is the language of George Bush. ( I told her this in English, and she understood it. )


Can you imagine: a school system hung-up on the entirely artificial, contrived, and imaginary difference between who and whom, then has children in school read the word gonna in print in stories written by famous hillbillies like Mark Twain?


California is majority Spanish-speaking, and the schools are teaching this crap! This is the English-only that the children are to learn.:rolleyes:

Spartacus
04-07-08, 09:40 PM
Bonus: The plural form of y'all is: "all y'all" :cool:

oh, what a relief. I won't have to memorize another goose/geese, moose/meese^H^H^H^HH^ moose thing.