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View Full Version : Ben Bernanke - The Comrade



DemonD
03-27-08, 04:02 AM
Nothing newsworthy, just felt like ranting. I really hate this guy, he acts like a communist politico who does nothing but crap on the proletariats to the enrichment of his fatcat pigmen in power. Henceforth, anytime I refer to him in the future he will be known as Comrade Bernanke.

I would invite all itulip members and anyone who reads this to join me in this appropriate nickname - helicopter ben just sounds too benign. Comrade Bernanke really fits this situation best.

GRG55
03-27-08, 06:25 AM
Nothing newsworthy, just felt like ranting. I really hate this guy, he acts like a communist politico who does nothing but crap on the proletariats to the enrichment of his fatcat pigmen in power. Henceforth, anytime I refer to him in the future he will be known as Comrade Bernanke.

I would invite all itulip members and anyone who reads this to join me in this appropriate nickname - helicopter ben just sounds too benign. Comrade Bernanke really fits this situation best.

Here's the cover from the current issue of BusinessWeek. Title of the cover article...

Ben Bernanke: Reluctant Revolutionary (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077crisis.htm?chan=magazine+channel_top+stories)


Sort of looks like that other Comrade doesn't it?

http://images.businessweek.com/lede/08/350x230/0319_mz_cover.jpg (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077crisis.htm?chan=magazine+channel_top+stories)


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077magazine.htm

*T*
03-27-08, 07:30 AM
<rant>
In ideology, definitely not :eek:.

The defining ideology of communists is advocacy of common ownership of the means of production, not necessarily central planning. Communism is typically internationalist.

Whereas, Mussolini defined fascism (or corporatism) as the prefect marriage of business and state. Fascism is typically nationalist.

What we have is concentrated private ownership of the means of production and a transfer of common wealth to private hands (bailouts), essentially a union of state and private interests. This I call fascist, or at least corporatist. In other respects too the US has fascist elements. For instance see the definition by R Paxton:

...a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions; 2. belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination'.
I would say W is a fascist in the technical sense.
Also the US culture has become highly militaristic.

Historically they have both had in common the tendency of central planning, but that was more a typical 20th century idea that covered all the political spectrum. But common ownership does not necessarily imply central planning.

Maybe it's a US vs European definition thing, e.g. what we call liberal you call libertarian, etc.
</rant>

So what should we call Ben Bernanke? History will perhaps change the name itself into an epithet ("Oh, he's a complete Bernanke!") but I reckon, for a central banker, chopper Ben is pretty damning.

I still think morally he's better than the self-serving Greenspan, at least Bernanke was honest about what his unconventional methods were and are.

Slimprofits
03-27-08, 02:27 PM
Here's the cover from the current issue of BusinessWeek. Title of the cover article...

Ben Bernanke: Reluctant Revolutionary (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077crisis.htm?chan=magazine+channel_top+stories)


Sort of looks like that other Comrade doesn't it?

http://images.businessweek.com/lede/08/350x230/0319_mz_cover.jpg (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077crisis.htm?chan=magazine+channel_top+stories)


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/08_13/B4077magazine.htm

Michael Chertoff too.

http://dimmykarras.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/chertoff-and-lenin.jpg

DemonD
03-28-08, 01:39 AM
<rant>
In ideology, definitely not :eek:.

The defining ideology of communists is advocacy of common ownership of the means of production, not necessarily central planning. Communism is typically internationalist.

....

What we have is concentrated private ownership of the means of production and a transfer of common wealth to private hands (bailouts), essentially a union of state and private interests. This I call fascist, or at least corporatist.

T, communism in ideology has never worked as Marx intended. I did read the Communist Manifesto, and Marx makes a lot of sense in terms of economics and philosophy. However, in practice, communism becomes what Russia is, what China is, which is basically an oligopoly of centralized power with alliances between the guys who control the money and the guys who control the guns. Fortunately, the guy who ultimately controls the guns in this country is a civilian, and has civilians overseeing the guys that control the guns. And the guys that control the guns follow their orders from said civilians.

So we have, in effect, a partially communo-fascist economy operating right now, where the guy who controls the money is basically screwing over everyone he possibly can to save his own oligopoly on the control of the money.

So, in ideals, you are correct, bernanke is not a communist. In practice, though, he is acting exactly like a modern communo-fascist, and, therefore, I maintain my previous statement: He is Comrade Bernanke, head of the banking cartel, using historically communistic tactics of stealing the production means from the workers and enriching his fatcat buddies. (Of course, this is the opposite of what marx intended, which is to have the means and wealth of their production under their control and distributed based on their output and effectiveness.)

I might need a refresher in Marxism, but I do believe part of the Manifesto was that workers who were the most productive and effective would receive the greatest benefits from the fruits of their labor. In that way, the US has done fantastically incorporating that ideal, as men and women who are innovative and hardworking and risk-taking have been allowed to flourish under the capitalistic system. We've done it better than anyone else in the history of the world; this may be an ethnocentric viewpoint, but would we be communicating right now through this great invention the internet without the open markets, supportive business policies, and potential rewards? I highly doubt it. Especially since itulip.com was invented by an American and is done in America. Last time I checked, the free speech laws here also allow for greater freedoms to allow people to create sites like itulip.com.

The bottom line is, when someone says "Comrade," you are generally referring to the Red Russia and Red China policies that steal the wealth generated by the labor of the proletariats who they have their thumb under, and by doing so, you give the proletariat little reason to have motivation to work - and a further degradation of society. Funny what happens when you start introducing moral hazard like that.

Maybe you have a different understanding of what communism in practice is, but short of a few kibbutzes in israel, the ideals of communism have never been reached with a communist government. Ironically enough, Marx's ideals have been achieved many times over by regulated capitalism (which, to my purview, actually shares a lot of philosophies with the Manifesto).

I'm going to fact check my statements on wiki to make sure I'm not talking out my ass here...

Okay here, from wiki, check this:
10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto (with my comments in italics)

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. - Abolition not achieved, but think of community centers, state parks, schools - definite application of all rents of land to public purpose. Eminent domain also fits with this.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. - We have this - although the Republicans have reduced the gradation. BTW Bernanke is a Republican.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. - The US has heavy estate/death taxes. Abolition also is unreasonable, but has a generally fair policy
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. - USA confiscates property used in commissions or the benefit of a crime. And then sells it.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. - bwahahahahahaha... this is a tenet every country, communist or capitalist, has.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.See: Eisenhower Interstate Highway System. -
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. - The manufacturing thing the US doesn't do, but the land and soil, isn't that what zoning is?
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. - Although it has been eroded, there are still things like OHSA and Worker's compensation, along with the family medical leave act, that lend support to labour.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country. - This seems to be happening, although I wonder if Marx, had he lived today, would change his mind about this, due to the effects of urban sprawl, as many environmental engineers believe more density will allow more open space with more efficiency in terms of distribution of food and goods.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production. - The USA, a democratic republic government with a capitalist economy, represents this ideal 100%, as all US citizens are entitled to free primary education until age 18, child labor laws are very stringent, and many schools are vocational in nature, and almost all others have some sort of internship/work connections.

I know I'm going on a wide tangent here, but bear with me.

Of these 10 tenets of communism, the USA, a capitalist country, achieves 6 out of these 10 ideals, with the other 4 ideals partially achieved.

So, "communism" as an ideal, is already being practiced here, in the USA, at a much better level than any so-called "communist" country. This is why the ideal of communism is not what we mean when we refer to someone as Comrade. When we say Comrade, we are referring to the dictators and oligopolies that have controlled Russia and China since WWII (and before). Mr. Bernanke, through his thoroughly pro bourgeoisie and anti proletariat tactics, is acting just like a dictator in Russia or China would.

Therefore, it is correct to call him Comrade Bernanke, as he is a freakin pinko commie bastard who is continuing destructive policies that will continue to degrade the standards of living for all of those who are not bank gangsters.

zoog
03-28-08, 01:58 AM
That was very interesting, DemonD, thanks.

*T*
04-16-08, 08:06 AM
The bottom line is, when someone says "Comrade," you are generally referring to the Red Russia and Red China policies that steal the wealth generated by the labor of the proletariats who they have their thumb under, and by doing so, you give the proletariat little reason to have motivation to work - and a further degradation of society.


comrade |ˈkɒmreɪd|
noun
a companion who shares one's activities or is a fellow member of an organisation.

I think I agree more or less with almost all of what you said, except the definition of comrade, which round my way still means the above. Perhaps just a UK/US usage thang?

I would still rather label him and his cohort as fascist, since it agrees with both the practice and the ideology, but if you want to call him comrade, that's fine by me, since we seem to be arguing only semantics.

FRED
04-16-08, 11:11 AM
Reminds us of:

http://www.itulip.com/images/debtprison.jpg