Commodities ETF's

[barrydd933]

Does anyone know of ETF's regarding commodities other than Gold,Oil and Gasoline,i.e.Corn,Wheat,Platinum?Prefer to hold ETF's rather than futures as I'm not wicked smart like some of the posters here.

[BiscayneSunrise]

DBA tracks corn, wheat, sugar and soybeans.
PHPD-London follows Palladium
DBC is a mix of metals and agriculture
JJC- Copper
JJN-Nickel
DBB- Mix of Base Metals
JJG-Grains
UNG-Natural Gas

[Jim Nickerson]

RJA ag
RJN nergy
RJI complete rogers index
RJZ metalz

GEX
NLR
PHO
IGF
FUE
GRU

THE above ARE FROM A LIST OF THINGS I THINK I SHOULD FOLLOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE NAMES OF THEM YET FROM FAMILIARITY. I PRESUME YOU CAN FIND THEM ALL IN etfconnect.com

also
DJP
GSG
MOO

I own RJA, RJN, GEX all 1% or less positions.

[barrydd933]

Excellent response,next question,are any of them shorts,do they exist yet?

[Jim Nickerson]

Excellent response,next question,are any of them shorts,do they exist yet?


Go to Profunds or Proshares are the one's I use--these days the Proshares that are ETF's and they have ton of instruments that allows one to bet long or short on major indices and many sectors. The sectors are based on DJ sector indices.

Rydex also has such funds and ETF's I presume, I just can't keep up with all of them, so I mainly use Proshares.

You might also search iTulip for posts that contain "ETF" and find some more discussion.

[GRG55]

Excellent response,next question,are any of them shorts,do they exist yet?

For anyone with a broker that can trade London securities here's a link to the ETF Securities site. They have quite a variety of ETFs and ETC (exchange traded commodities) across the commodity spectrum, including a variety of short ETFs. Note in the precious metals catagory they have two flavours of long ETFs: securities that track the DJ-AIG indices, and pure metal trackers backed by physical (I think that's similar to GLD on the NYSE?).
http://www.etfsecurities.com/en/welcome.asp

And here's a link to another site that has a listing of a variety of listings on different exchanges (I have it defaulting to the London Stock Exchange listed ETFs) but it may not be complete
http://etf.stock-encyclopedia.com/category/etfs-listed-in-britain.html

[barrydd933]

For anyone with a broker that can trade London securities here's a link to the ETF Securities site. They have quite a variety of ETFs and ETC (exchange traded commodities) across the commodity spectrum, including a variety of short ETFs. Note in the precious metals catagory they have two flavours of long ETFs: securities that track the DJ-AIG indices, and pure metal trackers backed by physical (I think that's similar to GLD on the NYSE?).
http://www.etfsecurities.com/en/welcome.asp

And here's a link to another site that has a listing of a variety of listings on different exchanges (I have it defaulting to the London Stock Exchange listed ETFs) but it may not be complete
http://etf.stock-encyclopedia.com/category/etfs-listed-in-britain.html Good job!Unfortunately for me,using Fidelity doesn't gain me entree to the London market,but there might be a silver lining,someday soon ETC shorts will probably be available in US,which might coincide with the commodity bubble bursting!

[GRG55]

Good job!Unfortunately for me,using Fidelity doesn't gain me entree to the London market,but there might be a silver lining,someday soon ETC shorts will probably be available in US,which might coincide with the commodity bubble bursting!

I sometimes wonder if the point where there is a proliferation of a catagory of ETF isn't a contrary indicator. GLD has been around, but all of a sudden we are hearing about new gold ETFs in countries around the world.

There seem to far too many ETFs of all sorts popping out to keep track any more. They seem to be getting ever more complicated (I think they started as low cost trackers of major stock indices (S&P, DJIA, FTSE, etc), didn't they?. Now it's mind boggling, and given the complexity of them I wonder if there's poorly understood risk imbedded in many of the new flavours? Any feedback from folks who have looked more closely into these things?

[Tulpen]

GLD has been around, but all of a sudden we are hearing about new gold ETFs in countries around the world.

And now we also have a double inverse on gold: DZZ.

I think highly advisable to hold if the stock market plunges more than 2%.

[barrydd933]

And now we also have a double inverse on gold: DZZ.

I think highly advisable to hold if the stock market plunges more than 2%.
Plunges 2%?It usually does that before i've had my cornflakes and smoke my first ciggybutt(which sometimes winds up in aforementioned cornflakes)did you mean like 20%?:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[grapejelly]

A lot of commodity ETFs invest in futures and there are instant losses associated with the rolling over of contracts again and again...this is unavoidable and I think a near fatal flaw with many ETFs other than those that actually stockpile the physical commodity.

[barrydd933]

A lot of commodity ETFs invest in futures and there are instant losses associated with the rolling over of contracts again and again...this is unavoidable and I think a near fatal flaw with many ETFs other than those that actually stockpile the physical commodity.Thanks for the heads up on that!

[dbarberic]

There is DGP, which is 2x gold.

Is anyone aware of other investment firms offering a similar 2x gold investment? For some reasons I do not want to disclose due to conflict of interest, my employer will not allow me to hold shares of DGP.

[GRG55]

A lot of commodity ETFs invest in futures and there are instant losses associated with the rolling over of contracts again and again...this is unavoidable and I think a near fatal flaw with many ETFs other than those that actually stockpile the physical commodity.

Thanks for the heads up on that!

Be aware that the losses (or gains!!) on the roll of the contracts is a function of whether the forward curve for that commodity is in contango or backwardation. It's not a given the one loses money...

[Jim Nickerson]

http://www.investmentpostcards.com/2008/03/09/words-from-the-investment-wise-for-the-week-that-was-march-3-9-2008/#more-628



David Fuller (Fullermoney): Rise in soft commodities could end badly

“There has always been an element of speculation in commodities, which provided additional liquidity and helped the smooth functioning of these markets, more often than not. However they were never intended to be major investment alternatives to shares and bonds. Nevertheless that is what has happened, resulting in a tsunami of money pouring into commodities, exacerbating price rises that were already occurring as a consequence of rapidly increasing demand.

“I fear that this could end badly for the food industry, consumers, the functioning of commodity markets, and for investors. If prices continue to rise, attracting more money to commodity funds and ETFs as could easily be the case, I think the US government will become involved. Their attitude is unlikely to be: OK, you are prudent investors so the mayhem doesn’t matter.

“So what should one do? Tread warily. If / when food prices become a frequent front-page item, the danger signs will be flashing, particularly if commodity market officials and politicians are complaining. Meanwhile, many trends have accelerated. This is an ending signal of unspecified duration and downward dynamics will signal the onset of corrections, as we have so often seen with other markets. If / when investors / speculators in foods take fright, this is likely to spread to other commodities where dramatic price rises have occurred.

“Over the longer term, these markets remain in secular bull trends as demand is rising faster than supply, more often than not.”
Source: David Fuller, Fullermoney (http://www.fullermoney.com/), March 6, 2008.


Could this be a worthwhile observation? I think it is.

[GRG55]

http://www.investmentpostcards.com/2008/03/09/words-from-the-investment-wise-for-the-week-that-was-march-3-9-2008/#more-628

...“I fear that this could end badly for the food industry, consumers, the functioning of commodity markets, and for investors. If prices continue to rise, attracting more money to commodity funds and ETFs as could easily be the case, I think the US government will become involved. Their attitude is unlikely to be: OK, you are prudent investors so the mayhem doesn’t matter...



Could this be a worthwhile observation? I think it is.


Agreed, except for the part about US government involvement. The US is a net exporter of food and many softs, like cotton, so rising prices should be constructive for the US economy and trade deficit (to offset all that money flowing out to buy imported oil). I can't see the US government being overly concerned, and besides, when was the last time the US government worried about the "mayhem" created by supposedly "prudent investors"? As long as someone on Wall St is making money from this, all is fine and dandy with Washington...