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Jim Nickerson
07-27-06, 03:34 PM
Thanks to jk, I came across this article by Bud Conrad http://goldmoney.com/en/commentary/2006-07-05.html

Conrad apparently works for a company that makes money from promoting gold.



Who is responsible for this sin of profligate spending? You could start by pointing a finger at the House of Representatives as they are constitutionally charged with holding the purse strings of the U.S. government. They voted for the spending and programs we are now saddled with, they pass tax programs, and vote in the big supplemental bills that fund the wars.

Entrusted with allocating the biggest sums of funding in the world, they clamor for more and, in the process, act like termites chewing away at the fiscal underpinnings of the economy, assuring the future bankruptcy of the nation. And it is not just the modern politicos that are responsible, but a failure to pursue sound monetary policies that extends back decades. Why do they do it? That answer is easy and reflective of human nature... they do it to curry favor with their constituents in order to get reelected. [JN emphasis]

I ask: What will it take to change the future of US politics?

I think this is perhaps the most important question anyone in the United States can ask today. The time one spends contemplating an answer should be inversely proportioned to one's age. That assumes one is planning on continuing to live in the US, and I believe the younger one is right now, the greater the importance of critically thinking and ideally mobilizing some action to bring about changes that will cease the insanity that currently exists politically in our country.

Recently I wrote Thomas G. Donlan, who writes editorials in Barron's, about how rotten politics is:
"I enjoyed your perspectives: the first which re-educated me a bit about the Constitution, and the second which to me suggests possibly a curse as I see the Interstate Hwy. System having become.

Reading Jefferson's words, "it is their Right, it is their Duty to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security." suggested to me the tenor of your piece would be to throw out our elected officials and representatives. I was a bit disappointed that you did not offer constructive ideas on how to accomplish that, really more than a bit disappointed, quite disappointed is appropriate. Perhaps next week or week after you will choose this topic."


Mr. Donlan replied: "I have editorialized many times that citizens ought to seek the enactment of term limits, and that failing that they should always vote against incumbents. Beyond that, the right of revolution requires taking up arms, and since I do not think we have sunk so low, I forbear to mention it in print."


My deepest conviction at the moment is that nothing will change politics, as it is now, short of some sort of armed revolution--but hopefully I am too cynical. Mr. Donlan's suggestion always to vote against the incumbents, were it to happen, is only a short-term solution--lasting from the November elections until new representatives or senators are sworn in January. The moment those who are newly elected take their hands off a Bible they are transformed right back to where the previous elected official left off: interested in two just two things--primarily their own benefit and secondly getting re-elected in 2, 4 or 6 years.


The majority of the electorate, that might includes you, elects officials at all levels based on the candidates' promises to provide what the majority sees as best benefitting them--in effect saying "to hell with the minority." The problem with this is that this country is comprised of all the people who live here who I believe rightfully should benefit or suffer equally from government. Representatives and senators are not primarily interested in all the people of the nation, because they were not elected but by some small segment of the population. Their "duties" are to see to their own welfare, and get as much pork barrel for their section of the country as possible to aid re-election, and again I believe the representatives and senators have the tendancy to say "to hell with the rest of the country." Of course, there is a tradeoff because all sections have their senators and representatives working their own pork barrel deals ostensibly for their constituents, but primarily in hopes of getting re-elected.


Now if what we have presently in our "free democracy" is the best political system on the planet, how is it that we are further and further up the creek without any hopes of having a paddle? The "creek" is increasing debt at all levels of government, health care costs that have increased from 6% of GDP in 1965, to 16% in 2004 , and expected to be 19% by 2014 while those without health insurance have risen to 45-48 million people, higher educational costs that are skyrocketing, lower test scores in our public schools, unfunded private pension plans, Social Security and Medicare that I think are destined to fail for lack of funding--and I expect you can add some more.


Something in this system must change. If anyone sees this significantly differently, then start a thread and defend another position.


Short of armed revolution (and I think it may come to that), some way enough people need to complain that the first thing our elected officials need to do is bring their compensation packages--salaries, health insurance, disablity, pension benefits--into an alignment that equals the average compensation of all Americans. I do not know what the laws and rules are that the Congress has in place that applies only to those in Congress and not to the rest of the land, but there are such laws and they should be repealed. Doing this things would get all the citizens onto the same playing field, and in such case such words perhaps uttered by W. Clinton "I feel your pain." would just begin to have some realistic meaning.


Any arguments that making the circumstance of an elected official less rewarding financially would prevent the "brightest and best" from seeking political office is totally spurious when the reality is if what we have now is the result of the "brightest and best," then where is the upside to election of such "shining stars"?


Now how can public outcry bring about such changes? It won't, because it is the people we elect who make the laws, and even if they get elected only once, they will not pass laws that dim their moment in the sun of personal glory and financial reward. It ain't gonna happen.


Secondly if things are to change, then massive public outcry is going to have to evoke a change in the part the "free speech of money" plays in electing officials. Until that happens in this country, then the monied interests are going to prevail against the interests of all those who have less money--which is way and away the majority. To change the part the "free speech of money" plays in electing officials I believe would require a constitutional amendment instigated again by those now elected, and that ain't gonna happen.


Thirdly, if we are to continue to elect officials in a manner even vaguely similar to the present system, then all campaigns need to be publicly financed with equal amounts going to every qualified candidate. This must be done to eliminate the effect wealth plays in favoring one wealthy candidate being elected to positions intended to govern all the people.


Fourth, there needs to be 5 or 6 political parties, if the party system is to continue, it is clear to me that a two party system unjustly rewards the party in power and unduly punishes the party that isn't--with citizens who are attracted to neither party suffering all the time. This will not happen either because the two parties presently have too much power and will never relenquish it for the good of the country. From an old movie, I don't remember which, one politician said, "Power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts." There are few truer statements that characterize our political system.


Fifth, pork barrel politicial incentives need to be banished. I consider this is possible if a majority of the electorate--individuals like you and me--across the entire nation made it a mandate that for whoever is elected, that official would vote to end pork barrel politics. Now doing this would put the onus on the majority of regular citizens to see if they have the fortitude to promote a law that would end the possibility of their collectively benefittng from pork barrel rewards. If the regular citizen could not pull this off against their own potential benefits, then I'll gurantee you the elected officals will never do anything that would bring their present levels of pay, benefits and retirement plans into anything closely approaching that of the average citizen, that would lessen the effect money plays in presently electing officials, or change from the present two party system.


If any or all of these beginning, meager suggestions seem unrealistic, then weigh that against the current reality in which we now exist.

When are the people most affected by the insanity of politics going to change how the system operates?

Who is John Galt?

Alfredo Dominguez
07-27-06, 10:54 PM
The sin Mr. Conrad refers to has been known since the times when men tolerated chiefs, kings, emporers, and doges and now continues into the age of presidents and prime ministers. There has been no fundamental change in human nature in all of this time and there is no reason to think there will be. In every age there exists a system made foul by those who operate it and there exist those who agitate to tear it down. Unfortunately, upon the rare ocassion when one of these systems is torn down, another is put up in its place - the justification being that a newer, more refined system is the answer when, in fact, the only answer is for men to give up putting up these systems in the first place. If you're set upon world-improvement, that's a fool's errand better not taken up. Practically speaking, the best one can do is to gain knowledge in these matters, spread that knowledge, and take appropriate actions to secure the future of himself, his family, and his friends against such predations.

SeanO
07-28-06, 12:26 AM
A couple of things I'd like to see:

A moderate third party. One that holds as its core belief the concept of compromise. Look for the best answer, and if there is still no clear majority, then their should be default be no regulation. Doesn't seem reasonable for a non-majority to dictate to a non-majority. Could start just as an advocacy party... one that raises enough money to influence the Party's to put forth candidates with more moderate positions. This seems possible, look at the traction Ross Perot got.

Line item accountability. This bullshit of attaching crap to good bills needs to end. Either seperate it out, or make each an every member of the house and senate add their blessing to each line item that isn't clearly within the original goal of the bill. Not enough votes for the attached item and out it goes. Clearly post the line item votes, so that real voting records and agendas become clear. This requires elected officials to act against their personal best interests, so not as likely.

EJ
07-28-06, 12:27 AM
You know where I stand on this Jim...

The U.S. will not solve its economic, educational, health, retirement, energy, and other major structural problems until it suffers a major financial crisis.

The Big Bet (http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=13133_0_24_0_C)

Jim Nickerson
07-28-06, 01:39 AM
If you're set upon world-improvement, that's a fool's errand better not taken up. Practically speaking, the best one can do is to gain knowledge in these matters, spread that knowledge, and take appropriate actions to secure the future of himself, his family, and his friends against such predations.

Alfredo,

It would be interesting to have a "pessimism-meter" to see which of us would have a higher reading.

If the "you're" in your post was singular and referencing me, let me reply that I am not set upon world-improvement--though undoubtedly the world could use improvement, because personally I have a relatively proximate sure-fire escape from the dilemma here in the US, and that is my life expectancy is much closer to its end than I hope is true from most who visit iTulip. I at best might make it 20 more years and my wife 30-35 years barring unnatural causes of death. I have no children, so that lessens my personal concerns about the future of this country.

But the few things I mentioned in my post and that are discussed on iTulip frequently are real problems facing those who have long life expectancies and children, and my wonderment is whether there are enough people appreciative enough of what the future appears to hold for them and their children to even attempt to bring about much needed change.

Unfortunately, I expect Eric is closer to correct--nothing will change until a major financial crisis or some horrendous man-made or natural disaster forces change. Despite vast technological gains in the last 150 or so years, it's sad that the development of good judgement has not kept pace

Alfredo Dominguez
07-28-06, 03:39 PM
Alfredo,

But the few things I mentioned in my post and that are discussed on iTulip frequently are real problems facing those who have long life expectancies and children, and my wonderment is whether there are enough people appreciative enough of what the future appears to hold for them and their children to even attempt to bring about much needed change.

Unfortunately, I expect Eric is closer to correct--nothing will change until a major financial crisis or some horrendous man-made or natural disaster forces change. Despite vast technological gains in the last 150 or so years, it's sad that the development of good judgement has not kept pace

Not to engage in pessimism one-up-manship but I believe any change that comes in response to a major financial catastrophe will be for the worse rather than the better. Desperation doesn't tend to produce rationality and virtue. And rather than the socialist movements of the Great Depression, conditions seem ripe for a reaction in the other direction. At my age (twenty-six), I know I'm supposed to still have some kind of idealism but the more I consider human society, the more I see it as a thing produced by fear, ignorance, and base instinct. I have already taken steps to limit my exposure to it and am weighing my options as to a possible next step should circumstances warrant.

Jim Nickerson
07-28-06, 05:00 PM
And rather than the socialist movements of the Great Depression, conditions seem ripe for a reaction in the other direction. At my age (twenty-six), I know I'm supposed to still have some kind of idealism but the more I consider human society, the more I see it as a thing produced by fear, ignorance, and base instinct. I have already taken steps to limit my exposure to it and am weighing my options as to a possible next step should circumstances warrant.

Alfredo,

Bear with my denseness, but what is in your mind "for a reaction in the other direction"? 26 is reasonably young, and if you have a real perception of societal, political and financial reality, you are way ahead of where I was by twice your age. Good for you, stay ahead of the pack.

Alfredo Dominguez
07-28-06, 05:36 PM
Alfredo,
Bear with my denseness, but what is in your mind "for a reaction in the other direction"?

Well, to avoid a term that has lost much of its meaning owing to hyperbolic overuse, I'll speak in specifics: a continuation of the trend toward centralization of power and the increasing domination of commerce by the state (certain industries being of "strategic importance," you see) as well as even more bellicosity abroad in the face of growing weakness and irrelevance and domestic regulation of civil liberties.

GrandpaNate
11-02-06, 06:48 PM
Vote Against The Incumbents.
Vati, Vati.

That’s V-A-T-I, with a long ‘A’ and long ‘I’.

The present state of America makes me sick. It actually makes me nauseous to ponder how far this once magnificent country has slipped into mediocrity. When I was a young man, fifty years ago, you could mention just about anything: And America was best at that. Now we rarely lead the World in anything. We can still claim one title: America has become the World's Biggest Debtor Nation.

Back then, America enjoyed the best health care, the best schools, and the best working conditions on Earth, while we worked less hours, made more money, and enjoyed a life style never before seen upon this planet.

Our coal mines were producing more coal, our steel-mills smelting more iron, and our assembly-lines led the World in manufacturing beautiful automobiles, refrigerators, wash-machines, dryers, and the hoard of smaller appliances and gadgets (which eliminated most of the drudgery of our daily chores) and introduced us to the life-of-ease, we all now enjoy.

Now, American High School Graduates rank only average (whether tested in Mathematics, World History, Language, Science or any other critical field of expertise) and compared with the test scores of students from other industrialized nations.

Our so-called health care system stinks, it is without question, the most dysfunctional conglomeration of nonsensical laws bureaucrats have ever assembled. It assures illegal aliens and greedy politicians unlimited free health care, while it renders millions of hard working, honest citizens, incapable of obtaining any kind of health insurance.

The new Social Security Drug Plan deducts a premium for drug insurance, which you can bet will raise every year, from the social security checks, of subscribers. [AARP just raised my premium from $25.25 to $28.50, a 12.87% raise for 2007.] A great many drugs are not covered by this new plan, and it only pays a maximum of about 70% on any drug, a lot less on most. When the total drug bill (what the retiree and the government pays) reaches $2250.00, Grandma gets cut off, has to pay it all herself, until her total drug bill reaches $3500.00. Obviously if Grandma can not afford her drugs, her bill will never get to $3500.00, so she will go without her drugs for the rest of the year. Of course the monthly premium will still be deducted from her Social Security Check. The drug companies formulated this drug bill, got it enacted, and only the drug companies are going to benefit from it. (Our government gives them the premiums.) In short, this Shaft Our Grandparents Bill is nothing but a multi-million dollar windfall for the drug companies.

[AARP also broadened the gap between when they quit paying for Grandma’s drugs, and when they start paying again. During 2006 they quit paying when the drug cost reach $2250, and restarted at $3600, leaving a $1350 gap. In 2007 the gap will be extended to $1450.]

The above bill is sure not the worst medical bill our elected officials have ever enacted. It just happens to be the last that made me angry. Hundreds of anti-consumer bills and amendments are on the books, which benefit only the medical and or the drug industries. Foreign competition to American Drug Companies is nonexistent. If it was legitimized, we could import drugs from reputable foreign drug facilities, for as little as 10% of the extortion we are now forced to pay our American Drug Companies.

Sad to say, but the Medical Cartels and Drug Companies, with their unchallenged power, are not the worst villains when it comes to manipulating our government into giving them a license to gouge us. The international oil and gas conglomerates, the interstate utility companies, railroad cartels, automobile and airplane manufacturing companies, the cable companies, international shipping cartels and a score of other business concerns all wield as much or more power over our Congress, Senate and President, than the drug companies do.

Big Business is our real enemy. Big Business controls both our National and State Governments, and Big Business is the real reason America is losing ground on all fronts, the reason America is slowly but steadily slipping into mediocrity.

The companies mentioned above, along with a score of Countries and a hoard of other mighty forces, funnel billions of dollars annually into Washington, to influence the Republican and Democratic Party Leaders to legislate on their behalf.

The leaders of the Democratic and Republican Parties, in the Congress and Senate, now have more control over their subservient Congressman and Senators, than a Marine General has over his troops. The Political Party Lords control the pac-money. And the pac-money is what decides who will get elected, or heaven forbid, smeared. The Political Lords can’t just walk down on the floor and tell a congressman or senator that they are fired. But they can have anyone that fails to kowtow to the powers that be, ostracized, and rendered powerless. And by denying pac-money and support, they can keep anyone from being re-elected.

It is crucial to America's future that we, the voters, acknowledge that the Political Lords are running this country. When all the Republicans vote yea, and all the Democrats vote nay, our Congressman and/or Senators are not voting their conscience, and they sure aren't voting the way we want them to vote. They are voting exactly the way the Party Lords have decreed they vote. And folks that’s not Democracy, that’s flagrant Bureaucracy. If we are going to declare war, prudence behooves us to first learn all we can about our enemy.

Now, I just pulled what I have written here off the top of my head. So if you find a mistake, don’t get excited, it is not that important, the overall theme of this opinion is correct. And furthermore it is also correct that with a minimum of research, anyone can ascertain for themselves that this greatest of all nations, is rapidly slipping into mediocrity.

And even the United States of America, the greatest nation that ever existed, can fall from within, if we continue to allow misguided politicians, to barter piece after piece of good government away to any group able and willing to pay for preferential treatment.

The only question left is, where are you going to place your loyalty, to the Political Parties, which you have been blindly supporting, or to America? You can’t serve two masters, and be loyal to either. We have to take the power away from the Party Lords; to the extent that it allows our elected representatives to vote the way we tell them to vote. Or in thirty years you are not going to be able to tell the difference between Washington and the corrupt Government of Mexico, or for that matter, tell the difference between America and Mexico.

I have been telling people for years; when in doubt always vati. But only in this last year has the urge to really push this concept become obligatory.

Actually, voting against the incumbents is a very viable method of straightening out what is wrong with America. The power of our vote is awesome, if used wisely. Many congressmen and senators win their seats by very small margins, less than 5%. So if just 5% of the voters would vati, we would probably retire near a quarter of our Senators and Congressmen. And you can bet we would get their attention. If as many voters vati-ed, as voted for Ross Perot in 1992, we’d probably unseat about 75% of both houses. Very few politicians win their seats with an 18.9% margin.

Folks this plan definitely has possibilities. Politician’s egos are all wrapped up in their positions. Actually the only thing in the World, politicians love more than pac-money, is their influential positions, their jobs. And on the very day our legislators learn that their electorate is actually threatening to vote them out of office, they are going to be magically stricken with a burning desire to legislate on behave of their constituency.

The only question left is, where are you going to place your loyalty, to the Political Parties that you have been blindly supporting, or to America? You can’t serve two masters, and be loyal to both. We have to take the power away from the Party Lords; to the extent that it allows our elected representatives to vote the way we tell them to vote. Or in thirty years you are not going to be able to tell the difference between Washington and the corrupt Government of Mexico, or for that matter, tell the difference between America and Mexico.

I wrote this poem more than twenty years ago, and it reverberates my sentiment now as vibrantly, as then.

VATI VATI

As Mighty Rome Fell, America Could Die.
Whether It Falls Or Not, Is Up To You And I.

I worried and stewed, but by-and-by,
came up with a plan, where you and I,
can put America the a road, to a brand-new high.
Just blame the politicians, get blood in your eye,
and vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

Now just voting won't do it, we've got to vati.
That's v, a, t, i, with a long "A", and long "I."
Vote Against The Incumbents, and you vati.
Things will never get better, until we vati.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

There is no time, to just set and sigh.
America will fail, without you and I.
The time has come, we must do or die.
We must all vote, and we must vati.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

Things won't just get better, by-and-by.
Unless the apathetic voters, you and I,
hit those poles with blood in our eye.
And not only vote, but wisely vati,
Vote against the incumbent. Vati, vati.

We must not buy, some political lie,
the America we love, is about to die.
Politicians no longer, serve you and I,
but all acquiesce, to the powers that buy.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

The newly elected may want to serve you and I,
until that powerful pac-money catches their eye.
Then party loyalty becomes, their big lie.
As they vote with the Pac, for their piece of the pie.
Vote against the incumbents, Vati, vati.

Congressmen and Senators are nigh as apt to die,
as meet defeat at the poles, by you and I.
They know we’ll vote for’em, they don’t have to try.
America is declining, as democracy goes awry.
Vote against the incumbent. Vati, vati.

Waxing fat on the apathy, shown by you and I,
politicians became hogs, and Washington's a sty.
But we can change all that, in the blink of an eye,
if we just get off our apathy, and dutifully vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

If just one out of twenty, of us would vati,
we*d get nigh a forth of that Washington sty.
Now that might he to few, to help you and I,
But we’d darn sure make, the rest of them shy.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

And when; "Foul, foul," the politicians cry.
And charge that; "great careers will sadly die."
Stand up and look them, straight in the eye,
And vow; "Losing only makes the truly-great try."
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

From the County Coroner, to that Washington sty,
if you don’t love the incumbent, always vati.
Help turn America toward, a brand-new high.
Teach your kids and your friends, they must vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

If the state of America, makes you want to cry,
then help start a revolution, no one has to die.
Our party loyalty sent elections go so far awry.
And we can fix that error, just revolt and vati.
Vote against the incumbents. Vati, vati.

Part your 2nd and 3rd finger; that "v" means vati.
Send this to a friend, who you think will comply.
Let’s all band together and give'em a black eye.
Vati, vati, and hearty bye-bye.

Grandpa Nate @ Rawlins, Wyoming.
Also see: http://grandpanate.com
[If you like this, copy it, and pass it on.]

GrandpaNate
11-03-06, 11:36 AM
Why we must Vati?

I believe, most people in America, old enough to vote, know that corruption is flourishing in our Nation’s Capital. Yet incredibly, this knowledge seems to generate very little real concern. It definitely should: Because corrupt politicians can even bring America, the richest, most powerful country that ever existed, to her knees.

Every day the Republican and Democratic Party Lords work at enacting bills, which cedes one international conglomerate after another some financial quid pro quo, for pac-money received. And nearly all concessions to Big Business prove to be detrimental to America’s working people. Under the present system America will eventually have hungry masses without health care, millionaires, and no middle class. America, as we know her, is at this moment rapidly degenerating.

Our National debt has now exceeded $8,548,384,110,614 as of the first of October 2006. To put that number in perspective, we just passed 300,000,000 citizens, so for every legal man, woman and child in America, we now owe $28,494.61. Talk about selling children into slavery, America has to be, the all time number one, on this list. Just the interest on our debt is costing us 427 billion, 419 million, 205 thousand, 5 hundred, and 30 dollars a year, at 5 percent. Actually we don’t borrow our money that cheaply. That is 1 billion, 171 million, 11 thousand, 5 hundred, 22 dollars each and every day, which our legislators are throwing away, because they failed to balance our budget. And every day, they are in session, our misguided politicians continue to give away, more and more money to Big Business. Their insatiable greed is like a growing cancer, sucking the life-blood out of America. Even if we could elect legislators, which prudently budgeted America’s great wealth: It would take our children, at least, thirty years to pay off these incredible debts, we have recklessly accumulated.

Still not concerned? Well let me relate one more fact: If America’s lenders get nervous, and cut off our credit, our government will collapse, beyond resurrection, in less than 120 days.

Obviously, the Senators and Congressmen ruling the House and Senate are never going to voluntarily give up their seats, or the source of their power, their pac-money. And stated short and quick: The only way, we are ever going to oust enough corrupt officials to demand drastic political reform, is to vati. Washington is in sad shape, and if we love this country we had best wake up, and do something to correct this untenable situation. If you have a better idea, I’ll listen to you, if not, let’s vati.
GrandpaNate @ Rawlins, Wyoming. http://grandpanate.com

Jim Nickerson
11-03-06, 12:41 PM
Why we must Vati?

I believe, most people in America, old enough to vote, know that corruption is flourishing in our Nation’s Capital. Yet incredibly, this knowledge seems to generate very little real concern. It definitely should: Because corrupt politicians can even bring America, the richest, most powerful country that ever existed, to her knees.

Every day the Republican and Democratic Party Lords work at enacting bills, which cedes one international conglomerate after another some financial quid pro quo, for pac-money received. And nearly all concessions to Big Business prove to be detrimental to America’s working people. Under the present system America will eventually have hungry masses without health care, millionaires, and no middle class. America, as we know her, is at this moment rapidly degenerating.

Our National debt has now exceeded $8,548,384,110,614 as of the first of October 2006. To put that number in perspective, we just passed 300,000,000 citizens, so for every legal man, woman and child in America, we now owe $28,494.61. Talk about selling children into slavery, America has to be, the all time number one, on this list. Just the interest on our debt is costing us 427 billion, 419 million, 205 thousand, 5 hundred, and 30 dollars a year, at 5 percent. Actually we don’t borrow our money that cheaply. That is 1 billion, 171 million, 11 thousand, 5 hundred, 22 dollars each and every day, which our legislators are throwing away, because they failed to balance our budget. And every day, they are in session, our misguided politicians continue to give away, more and more money to Big Business. Their insatiable greed is like a growing cancer, sucking the life-blood out of America. Even if we could elect legislators, which prudently budgeted America’s great wealth: It would take our children, at least, thirty years to pay off these incredible debts, we have recklessly accumulated.

Still not concerned? Well let me relate one more fact: If America’s lenders get nervous, and cut off our credit, our government will collapse, beyond resurrection, in less than 120 days.

Obviously, the Senators and Congressmen ruling the House and Senate are never going to voluntarily give up their seats, or the source of their power, their pac-money. And stated short and quick: The only way, we are ever going to oust enough corrupt officials to demand drastic political reform, is to vati. Washington is in sad shape, and if we love this country we had best wake up, and do something to correct this untenable situation. If you have a better idea, I’ll listen to you, if not, let’s vati.
GrandpaNate @ Rawlins, Wyoming. http://grandpanate.com

Nate,

I said above in effect if there really is a politician who is honest, the second after he or she is sworn into office the millieu in which he or she exists is different and perhaps that difference is power. Someone said "power corrupts and abosolute power absolutely corrupts." I do not personally see that dictum becoming false anytime soon.

VATI might be the only thing voters can do, but if I thought I would live another 50 years, I would bet you that notion will fail and keep on failing.

My answer is I am done voting. It is a waste of time and energy unfortunately. My answer was also not to have children, and I am sorry for those of you who do have young children and grandchildren.

For all the reasons you stated above, and I agree, we as a nation are going the wrong way. I think the only way that will change is when circumstances are so dire that such circumstances will finally wake up those who can be jolted into reality to get serious about what are real values in life. Whether or not they will then succeed in again making the USA a preeminent nation will remain to be seen.

Good luck, and I mean it, but I do not think you shall succeed in your effort.

BK
11-03-06, 12:51 PM
Term limits would be great....yah right....who'll deliver my free lunch?

Most Voters are more focused on which Elected official can deliver a Free Lunch. Voters like the concentration of Power that having the same elected offiicial represent them in Congress for 20-30 years. Why does Sen Kennedy get elected year after year. He delivers Money to his District!

So, lets not plan the elected official - look out your front door to your neighbor on your right and left. What Free Lunch motivates their voting? A cushy state/town job or a lucrative contract with the State or Federal Government or a Prescription Drug benefit or legisltion favorable to their Pharma related Employer.

EJ
11-03-06, 01:34 PM
Term limits would be great....yah right....who'll deliver my free lunch?

Most Voters are more focused on which Elected official can deliver a Free Lunch. Voters like the concentration of Power that having the same elected offiicial represent them in Congress for 20-30 years. Why does Sen Kennedy get elected year after year. He delivers Money to his District!

So, lets not plan the elected official - look out your front door to your neighbor on your right and left. What Free Lunch motivates their voting? A cushy state/town job or a lucrative contract with the State or Federal Government or a Prescription Drug benefit or legisltion favorable to their Pharma related Employer.

That's reason #5 for Ka-Poom Theory circa 1999: the pain of inflation is always the lesser of evils for politicians trying to please the majority of voters. Our system is politically hard-wired for a "Poom" inflation (what I call a "managed hyperinflation") if the choice comes down the 1) inflation or b) high unemployment.

Further, a perculiar result of such an inflation is that it makes most citizens feel more well off. When they are earning 10% on a six month CD, their nominal income is $110K this year versus $100K last year–a 10% raise!–and the nominal price of their home at least stays flat, and may even rise, and they have a job, all is wel. Yes, gasoline will cost $4.00 per gallon, but that will be seen as good because it will give rise to smaller, more efficient cars and industries to produce alternative energy and energy conservation related products. Other prices will rise, too, but you'd be surprised how people react to that. Being able to "afford" the new $40 entre in NYC makes the buyer feel more wealthy, even though all that has happened is that his nominal income has gone up in line with the nominal prices of goods and service. Meanwhile, with his new, higher nominal income, he's cancelling low fixed rate debt that he took on years before. As for taking on new debt, revolving debt is already in the high teens–consumers are remarkably insensitive to the rates. Monthly mortgage rates will go much higher, and the housing market will be stagnant through the "Poom" period, but will eventually recover.

spunky
11-05-06, 06:31 AM
There is not going to be meaningful political change here until we have a multi party system, and some real introspection from our citizens. We ,as americans, cannot continue to blame everyone else for our problems.

1) I am a member of the Libertarian Party and we are trying very hard to give americans a real choice. It is an uphill battle as we face constant lack of funds , lack of press coverage , and oppressive legislation from those who currently hold power.

2) The founders of this great country understood the need to decentralize power. Washington D.C. ( federal government ) Los Angeles, CA ( Hollywood) and New York ( Financial Capitial ) , exert way tooo much influence on the rest of the nation.


3) Where did all the political radicals go to ?????

4) Why cant we redraw physcial geographical boundries ?????

We continue to do the same ole , same ole in this country ( like vote for Democrats and republicians ) and we expect different results ???? That is simply insane, and apathy will get you nowhere :confused:



I understand everyones frustration with the medical system . I work in it, as have members of my family for over 70yrs. My grandmother was an RN during the Great Depression, my Uncle is a physcian and I am an RN .

I work at new hospital built by a large health care corporation. We are near 100% capacity for our inpatient , acute care units :eek: The current health care system is not set up to treat 300 million americans. We are drowning here, and trust me most all of us hate big pharma , and lawyers:mad:

Soo please give us a break here. We are doing the best we can . We have to operate 24/7/365. We respond to every emergency, bio hazard spill, school bus wreck , shooting , runny nose, cough and sneeze. I have to work again this Christmas eve and Thanksgiving. I make less than every UAW worker , and I get a whole 3% matching for my 401k, and my health insurance preminums went up 60$ a month , just like other americans did.

GrandpaNate
11-06-06, 06:43 PM
Spunky;
While I criticized our Government's disconnected bevy of non-sensical laws and regulations governing our Medical and Drug Policies; I sure don't blame the health care providers, which work for those organizations, for any part of this mess.

I strongly believe that all working people, the middle class, and that means everyone from a dishwasher to a 747 pilot, are being sold out by our legislators. From a livable minimum wage, to health care , to our children being sold into financial slavery, to their cutting college aid and in dozens of other ways, our way of life is being slowly but steadily eroded.

I have nothing against the Libertarian Party, or any other new political party. In fact I believe about five parties would be the ideal situation. But under the present system, I don't think there is a chance of a third party ever getting off the ground and maintaining a double digit percentage of either house, and that is about the least it would take to prove effective. Besides, calling a politician a Libertarian is not going to correct the problem, the first thing any politician, by any name, is going to be introduced to when he gets to Washington, is pc-money.

Jim;
You're right. I do have a large family, 6 children, 17 grandchildren, 13 great-grandchildren and one on the way. And they do give an added incentive to worry about our future. But I believe if I was you, I'd still vote against them all, just to exercise my frustration. As to my chances of getting enough people to vati to shake things up, I know it is a long shot. But I also know that if just 2 or 3 percent of the voters would vati in 2008, it would rattle the In's cages, and set a president, and then every election thereafter, when the people were dissatisfied, they would remember and join together and sock it to them again. Thanks for the good wishes, I appreciate them.

EJ;
I just can't believe that hyperinflation is managed. Hyperinflation is caused by idiotic budget management. We are going to have hyperinflation and a soaring National Debt until we figure out a way to bridle the Party Lords, and stop them from giving away countless billions in quid pro quo to International Businesses, for pac-money received.

DK;
About 50% of the voters are going to vote for their party, about 25% will vote Republican, and 25% Democrat, come hell or high water. They are about as apt to change party affiliation as they are to change religion. Only when people have no real personal concerns, does their attention turn to whatever beatification their representatives can provide. The real bottom line is people usually vote for a politician because they have been conned into believing said politician actually cares about them.

GrandpaNate
11-09-06, 05:32 PM
I not only voted.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
I vatied.
I feel great.
Gramps :)

Finster
11-09-06, 05:36 PM
I have nothing against the Libertarian Party, or any other new political party. In fact I believe about five parties would be the ideal situation. But under the present system, I don't think there is a chance of a third party ever getting off the ground and maintaining a double digit percentage of either house, and that is about the least it would take to prove effective. Besides, calling a politician a Libertarian is not going to correct the problem, the first thing any politician, by any name, is going to be introduced to when he gets to Washington, is pc-money.

I think one of the most effective things a third, fourth, or fifth party could do wouldn't require a double digit percentage of either house. It would be wonderful if they only prevented any of the others from getting a majority!

GrandpaNate
09-11-07, 09:19 PM
Vati Party

VATI is the first letter in "Vote Against The Incumbents,” and that is what it means. Vati means you always vote against the person holding the office, the incumbent, regardless of political affiliation.

The majority of our Congressmen and Senators have absolutely no fear of losing their offices. They know that party loyalty [be it Republican or Democrat] of their constituency will assure their perpetual reelection In the whole Senate you are likely to have only five or six seats [in the Congress less than 30 seats] that are not securely locked-up by one, or the other, political parties.

And actually, nothing is gained when we do manage to send an occasional new representative to Washington. In short: They are simply gobbled up by the system. They are introduced to pac-money, and the powerful party leaders [Party Lords] and end up cuddling up to Big Business, and voting the party line, for legislation that enhances the Conglomerate's bottom line, to the determent of their constituency, to the determent of America.

Now, a large percentage of Congressmen and Senators win their seats by very small margins, less than 5%, so if just 10% of the voters Vati, we would likely unseat nearly 20% of our Representatives. If we could generate as much support as Ross Perot did, [according to the last election] we would kick out close to 90% of the House and Senate.

But more important than just getting rid of some self-serving politicians, unseating just 10% of the House and Senate would definitely get their attention. And then we could demand drastic change. We could demand a clean break between our Legislators and Big Business. We could outlaw all soft-money, and make any contact between our Legislators and Big Business [except publicized discussion in an open forum] illegal.


We can demand term limits. I am for an eight-year term limit, for all Government Offices. Let Senators serve one six year term or change the length their terms to four years. We can demand secure borders, and that everything entering our ports be inspected. We could demand a rigidly enforced alien worker program, which caters to America’s needs. And demand a viable plan which honorably ends the war in Iraq.

We can let Washington know, anyone who votes against anything the majority of America clearly wants, had better start looking for a new job.

Vatiing is a very viable method of voting to save America, to cure what is wrong with America, a viable way of stopping America’s rapid descent into mediocrity.

The interest in “vote against the incumbents” is growing exponentially. Now we need to get organized, form a political party. Much like any other political party, except we won’t run candidates for office. Our challenge will be to make the other Parties Candidates legislate for America, and America’s People.

If you have any ideas, comments, want to help get organized, or whatever, please leave a message at: http://voteagainsttheincumbents.blogspot.com/