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metalman
11-15-07, 06:07 PM
i have a serious question about my guy ron paul for the good people here. this is from...

http://www.jewcy.com/cabal/ron_pauls_jewish_problem
Indeed, Ron Paul has become the most popular candidate among right-wing extremists, including white separatists, neo-Nazis, and conspiracy theorists who believe that “the Zionists” were behind 9/11. This group includes Frank Weltner, creator of the antisemitic website JewWatch.com, who in a YouTube video, accuses the “Zionist-controlled media” of attacking Paul’s candidacy. Paul has also received favorable coverage from the Vanguard News Network, a White Nationalist news organ, members of Stormfront, an online neo-Nazi community, as well as the National Alliance, the “mainstream” White Nationalist group featured prominently in Marc Levin’s 2005 film Protocols of Zion.

Of course, Congressman Paul cannot be held accountable for the views of his extremist supporters, unless he publicly acquiesces to those views. Yet, when his extremist supporters begin providing a substantial amount of campaign funds, things get a bit dicier. And that’s Paul’s biggest problem.

According to the Lone Star Times, White Nationalists have become a noticeable source of financial contributions to the Paul campaign. Indeed, even Don Black, the founder of Stormfront, and one of the most notorious neo-Nazis in America, has personally contributed $500 to Paul’s campaign.

Though it’s true that Paul’s campaign has no control over who sends them money in advance, once it becomes apparent that a neo-Nazi leader is sending money, any sensible politician who does not wish to be identified with neo-Nazism should send the money back. Not so for Ron Paul, however, whose campaign is still making up its mind as to whether or not to return Black’s money.

Paul’s spokesman Jesse Benton told the Lone Star Times:

"At this time, I cannot say that we will be rejecting Mr. Black’s contribution, but I will bring the matter to the attention of our campaign director again, and expect some sort of decision to be made in coming days."

Frankly, this is a no-brainer. Any other candidate would unequivocally reject that money as soon as its donor’s identity was known. That Paul’s campaign needs time to think about it is shocking.
i know paul said he'll take anyone's money and money won’t influence his views and he can’t be bought. if every goldman sachs employee gives the max to ron paul hoping for some help... ha, ha, suckers. i get his point there.

but what if giuliani took money from don black? he’d be run out of the party as an anti-semite. what if clinton took money from a don black? end of her run, i'd say.

taking money from hate groups may be consistent with the policy of no money influence but i think it shows piss poor judgment. it makes me wonder.

Andreuccio
11-15-07, 06:32 PM
My view on Paul is I like his independent streak, and the economic stuff I've heard makes some sense, (video here a few of months ago, for example). But he's a nut on other stuff, including the stuff you bring up. I admit my opinion is based almost entirely on brief bits of info I've read elsewhere. I really haven't researched the guy. Since he's not a top tier candidate at this point, I'm not likely to.

Tulpen
11-15-07, 06:39 PM
It's ironic, he seems to get a lot of popular votes, but if he does what he wants to do, those voters are not going to be happy.

Spartacus
11-15-07, 06:47 PM
I'm Canadian, so feel free to ignore an outsider's sticking his nose in ...

Are these critics neocons?

These hate groups only TALK about violence, right? It's not as if they talk about Judeo-fascists, then invade Jewish countries, bomb Jewish hospitals and water treatment plants and kill babies and draw up plans to nuke the Judeo-fascists.


i have a serious question about my guy ron paul for the good people here. this is from...

http://www.jewcy.com/cabal/ron_pauls_jewish_problem[INDENT]

taking money from hate groups may be consistent with the policy of no money influence but i think it shows piss poor judgment. it makes me wonder.

I believe there are pro choice people supporting RP (Naomi Wolf for example - someone set me straight) and probably contributing to the campaign even though he's pro life.

By comparison, taking this money is nothing.

But then I'm Canadian, and the last time I let a TV talking head dictate my opinion was a long time ago.

If there are such things a Jewish countries, I'm assuming there are such things as Jewish hospitals and water treatment plants ....

Andreuccio
11-15-07, 07:05 PM
At least on a superficial level, he reminds me a bit of Ross Perot. People love him because he speaks his mind. But then when you really listen to some of the stuff he says, maybe you don't like him so much.

Andreuccio
11-15-07, 07:10 PM
Are these critics neocons?

These hate groups only TALK about violence, right? It's not as if they talk about Judeo-fascists, then invade Jewish countries, bomb Jewish hospitals and water treatment plants
and kill babies and draw up plans to nuke the Judeo-fascists.



Yeah, but the neocons too only talked about their plans for the Project for the New American Century. Right up until GWB put Cheney in charge of the Vice-Presidential search committee. After that it was all action.

Uncle Jack
11-15-07, 07:50 PM
My view on Paul is I like his independent streak, and the economic stuff I've heard makes some sense, (video here a few of months ago, for example). But he's a nut on other stuff, including the stuff you bring up. I admit my opinion is based almost entirely on brief bits of info I've read elsewhere. I really haven't researched the guy. Since he's not a top tier candidate at this point, I'm not likely to.

All the things that would make him a top tier candidate would simultaneously remove his independent streak.

You've put your support of Ron Paul on the same scale with the obese in this country who say, "I'd like to exercise to lose weight, but exercising at my size is just too painful."

Andreuccio
11-15-07, 08:08 PM
All the things that would make him a top tier candidate would simultaneously remove his independent streak.

You've put your support of Ron Paul on the same scale with the obese in this country who say, "I'd like to exercise to lose weight, but exercising at my size is just too painful."

LOL. True, but come on, there are what, like 20 people running for president this cycle? The primary here's not for three more months. I have trouble keeping up with stuff here on iTulip. There's no way I have time to read 20 CV's and position papers from all of them.

metalman
11-15-07, 08:16 PM
I'm Canadian, so feel free to ignore an outsider's sticking his nose in ...

Are these critics neocons?

These hate groups only TALK about violence, right? It's not as if they talk about Judeo-fascists, then invade Jewish countries, bomb Jewish hospitals and water treatment plants
and kill babies and draw up plans to nuke the Judeo-fascists.

oh, goodie. i knew this'd be a happening thread. which logical fallacy (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) applies. let me see...

20. Unstated Major Premise This fallacy occurs when one makes an argument which assumes a premise which is not explicitly stated. For example, arguing that we should label food products with their cholesterol content because Americans have high cholesterol assumes that: 1) cholesterol in food causes high serum cholesterol; 2) labeling will reduce consumption of cholesterol; and 3) that having a high serum cholesterol is unhealthy. This fallacy is also sometimes called begging the question.

first let's get the flavor of anti-semite straight. we're talking about don black and stormfront. visited the web site. (i feel like i need a shower) the stormfront guys don't like jews because, they claim, jews control everything, the media and wall street and the banks and, of course, it's all israel's fault that the us invaded iraq etc. and, of course, everyone who is jewish supports israel so it's the jews. blah, blah, blah.

now if i follow your reasoning, the usa/israel jews in charge of everything killed and bombed all of these muslims around israel on purpose, meaning, that was the point, to kill kids and sick people, because the usa/israel jew hates muslins? is that the analogy you are drawing? and that the only diff is that the jew haters aren't nearly as bad because they haven't gone and killed a bunch of sick people and kids on purpose also? just want to be clear i'm following along here.


I believe there are pro choice people supporting RP (Naomi Wolf for example - someone set me straight) and probably contributing to the campaign even though he's pro life.

his position, i think, is that states choose. so women fly to massachusetts or new york for abortions. that works for paul's free market ideas. must be an investment op in there.


By comparison, taking this money is nothing.

it's stupid is my point. it ruins his cred.


But then I'm Canadian, and the last time I let a TV talking head dictate my opinion was a long time ago.

so they're a bunch of assheads there too.

Spartacus
11-15-07, 11:02 PM
Why bother analyzing? Did I make any claims of logic?

It's purely analogic and emotional reasoning.


oh, goodie. i knew this'd be a happening thread. which logical fallacy (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) applies. let me see...

now if i follow your reasoning,

Follow my what? I began the thing by disqualifying myself, then asked an emotion-laden question that contains an embedded, presumptive ad hominem attack ... that's just the 1st 2 sentences.

Contemptuous
11-16-07, 12:01 AM
Metalman, Spartacus -

I can't make heads or tails what you guys are arguing about. :D

___________

Metalman, please note, Spartacus is Canadian. These guys are all going to be rich as Croesus in a few years off all their resources and land and stuff. Their streets will be paved with cobblestones made of solid gold.

We gotta make nice to them cause nobody else is going to give us mangy Americans the time of day by then. We have mange now, see? They'll have to give us the time of day, cause they are stuck with us for a neighbor.

In fact, we should realise, that Canadians really are our better half. We're so rude and in-your-face, and they are so polite and "English-like".

Tell Spartacus you're sorry, (Please? So we can BUY SOME OIL from them in ten years, instead of having to MUG them for it?) :rolleyes:

metalman
11-16-07, 12:12 AM
Metalman, Spartacus -

I can't make heads or tails what you guys are arguing about. :D

___________

Metalman, please note, Spartacus is Canadian. These guys are all going to be rich as Croesus in a few years off all their resources and land and stuff. Their streets will be paved with cobblestones made of solid gold.

We gotta make nice to them cause nobody else is going to give us mangy Americans the time of day by then. We have mange now, see? They'll have to give us the time of day, cause they are stuck with us for a neighbor.

whaddaya talking about? we usa got nukes and hollywood and what else do you need?


In fact, we should realise, that Canadians really are our better half. We're so rude and in-your-face, and they are so polite and "English-like".

"canada: the hospitality of the english and the efficiency of the french."


Tell Spartacus you're sorry, (Please? So we can BUY SOME OIL from them in ten years, instead of having to MUG them for it?) :rolleyes:

spartacus is a big boy whom i respect. he knows that. we're disagreeing on a forum. no one will get injured in the event. relax.

Contemptuous
11-16-07, 12:21 AM
Yeah, but WHAT ABOUT THE OIL?? Are we gonna have to MUG THEM for it, or will they give it to us for our green paper, peaceful trade-like?

I mean, if they don't want our Franklins in 2017 (and who's gonna want them? :o), what are we gonna hafta do to convince them to "sell" the black goop to us? :cool:

We might maybe threaten Canada with our ox-drawn MI Abram's tanks?

Spartacus
11-16-07, 12:46 AM
Apologies, MM - I did not mean to hijack or derail your thread.

It's a good question - Definitely FOX news will pick up on it, definitely it will hurt RP in some quarters.


oh, goodie. i knew this'd be a happening thread. which logical fallacy (http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp) applies. let me see...

20. Unstated Major Premise This fallacy occurs when one makes an argument which assumes a premise which is not explicitly stated. For example, arguing that we should label food products with their cholesterol content because Americans have high cholesterol assumes that: 1) cholesterol in food causes high serum cholesterol; 2) labeling will reduce consumption of cholesterol; and 3) that having a high serum cholesterol is unhealthy. This fallacy is also sometimes called begging the question.

first let's get the flavor of anti-semite straight. we're talking about don black and stormfront. visited the web site. (i feel like i need a shower) the stormfront guys don't like jews because, they claim, jews control everything, the media and wall street and the banks and, of course, it's all israel's fault that the us invaded iraq etc. and, of course, everyone who is jewish supports israel so it's the jews. blah, blah, blah.

now if i follow your reasoning, the usa/israel jews in charge of everything killed and bombed all of these muslims around israel on purpose, meaning, that was the point, to kill kids and sick people, because the usa/israel jew hates muslins? is that the analogy you are drawing? and that the only diff is that the jew haters aren't nearly as bad because they haven't gone and killed a bunch of sick people and kids on purpose also? just want to be clear i'm following along here.


his position, i think, is that states choose. so women fly to massachusetts or new york for abortions. that works for paul's free market ideas. must be an investment op in there.



it's stupid is my point. it ruins his cred.



so they're a bunch of assheads there too.

Contemptuous
11-16-07, 12:58 AM
I don't get it. What the f@$%^ are you guy's talking about? :confused:

metalman
11-16-07, 01:05 AM
I don't get it. What the f@$%^ are you guy's talking about? :confused:

relax. we both like the idea of ron paul but see the world as it is and wish things where not so.

Contemptuous
11-16-07, 01:25 AM
Relax. He said I should relax already? ... Heck, I'm totally RELAXED! ... :mad: :mad: :mad: :rolleyes:

\ ...


http://www.qualitylogoproducts.com/stress-balls/cartoon-shark-stress-reliever-extralarge.jpg


\ ...


What are we gonna do about OUR OIL, that the Canadians are sitting on, HUH!!!???

What's OUR OIL doing under their sand, HUH!!!???

metalman
11-16-07, 01:40 AM
Relax. He said I should relax already? ... Heck, I'm totally RELAXED! ... :mad: :mad: :mad: :rolleyes:

\ ...


\ ...


\ ...


What are we gonna do about OUR OIL, that the Canadians are sitting on, HUH!!!???

What's OUR OIL doing under their sand, HUH!!!???

ha ha ha ha! you think our friends here control canadian oil?

don't ya know ALL THE OIL WE'LL EVER NEED IS IN COLORADO OUT IN THE DESERT. ALL YOU NEED IS SOME NEW TECHNOLOGY AND 254,344,346,656 GALLONS OF WATER PER MINUTE TO GET IT. NO PROBLEMO!

GRG55
11-16-07, 02:18 AM
Lukester: Forget the oil. We Canadians already know you guys are going to invade us for our beer.

Andreuccio
11-16-07, 10:40 AM
Lukester: Forget the oil. We Canadians already know you guys are going to invade us for our beer.

And your beautiful women.

Andreuccio
11-16-07, 10:46 AM
Yeah, but WHAT ABOUT THE OIL?? Are we gonna have to MUG THEM for it, or will they give it to us for our green paper, peaceful trade-like?

I mean, if they don't want our Franklins in 2017 (and who's gonna want them? :o), what are we gonna hafta do to convince them to "sell" the black goop to us? :cool:

We might maybe threaten Canada with our ox-drawn MI Abram's tanks?

Franklins? In 2017 we'll be lucky if anybody will take a McKinley or a Cleveland.

GRG55
11-17-07, 09:43 AM
And your beautiful women.

We were kinda hopin' to keep those, in exchange for giving up the beer...:(

Contemptuous
11-17-07, 09:49 AM
Spartacus, do you grasp what your craven countryman GRG55 has just given away?

There he is, tucked safely away from all the war-torn strife and hopeless, chronic factional guerrilla warfare that's been going on in Canada, while he's safely whiling away his idle hours in the peaceful, bucolic Arabian Gulf, and like a blackguard and a coward, he's just sold Canada down the river!

Canada will surrender it's national treasure (it's ale!) to the United Mangy Confederation of American Crawling Maggots [ UMCACM ]!?? Behold, and weep at Canada's fate!

Meanwhile Metalman has calmed our jumpy nerves on the energy question by assuring me that by turfing out all the billionaire slime-balls from the ski resorts at Vail and Aspen, we'll get our trembling, greasy paws on enough hydrocarbons under the pristine state of Colorado to trash the whole snooty place.

What say you Spartacus? Will the Caandians rise up and throw off the yolk of the United Mangy Confederation of American Crawling Maggots oppression?

Spartacus
11-18-07, 03:08 PM
I'm seeing the racist label a lot on some newsgroups - at the moment exclusively from known freepers

metalman
11-18-07, 03:38 PM
I'm seeing the racist label a lot on some newsgroups - at the moment exclusively from known freepers

i can't say if paul's a racist. actions not words are what counts. all i know is he's got shitty judgment to keep the company of self-proclaimed, proud racist neo-nazi hate groups. and he may have worse than shitty judgment.

rabot10
11-18-07, 03:45 PM
And your beautiful women.

I see U have not been to Canada lately

Contemptuous
11-18-07, 04:28 PM
Rick Bishop you are sour grapes. Canadian women are beautiful. :D

Contemptuous
11-18-07, 04:29 PM
Metalman -

<< may have worse than shitty judgment. >>

Hell, that's never been known to impede a successful bid for the White House!

DemonD
11-19-07, 03:08 AM
I'm seeing the racist label a lot on some newsgroups - at the moment exclusively from known freepers

here's a guess: RP will be labeled as a racist by the powers that be (frontline candidates, media, and corporate america) because they think he is bad for business.

i bet religious types will be rallied against him because he believes in separation of church and state.

There is no indication in his voting record, his political history, or anything he has said that has shown he has any racist tendencies. I'm sure the pro-illegal immigration groups will call him a mexican hater, because he wants to shore up the border.

The facts as I see is that RP is much more Jefferson than neocon. My only hope/fear is that does he have the balls to protect himself. Eliminating whole departments and downsizing the military will make him a lot of enemies, so he better make sure he's got good friends and the will to play the political game; if he doesn't he'll end up just like JFK when he did the same thing.

I would be proud to vote for RP, just as I was proud to vote for my local house representative henry waxman.