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View Full Version : Cartoneros -Argentina, from middle class to garbage picker.



Sapiens
04-26-07, 11:36 AM
Cartoneros

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Cartoneros follows the paper recycling process in Buenos Aires from the trash pickers who collect paper informally through middlemen in ... all » warehouses, to executives in large corporate mills. The process exploded into a multimillion dollar industry after Argentina's latest economic collapse. The film is both a record of an economic and social crisis and an invitation to audiences to rethink the value of trash.

DemonD
04-27-07, 11:43 PM
Two pondering thoughts

1. I wonder if that lady owned/owns gold.

2. I wonder straight physical gold or silver bullion was (or is) used in trades for goods and services in Argentina.

Sapiens
04-28-07, 09:32 AM
Two pondering thoughts

1. I wonder if that lady owned/owns gold.

2. I wonder straight physical gold or silver bullion was (or is) used in trades for goods and services in Argentina.

As for 1. don't know.

2. Yes, we did quite well with it, bought lots of hectares.

DemonD
04-28-07, 06:17 PM
2. Yes, we did quite well with it [gold], bought lots of hectares.

Sapiens, this is the kind of info I am looking for. I would very much appreciate the anecdote(s) that follow along with your statement, like how did you use your gold to purchase land. Was it straight bullion? Was it paper transfer? Was it gold coins? Did you switch your gold into argentinian currency and then buy the land?

This is one of the major hangups I have about owning/holding physical, the mechanics of buy/sell and how you transfer physical gold for either another commodity like land or something more functional like bread, or a car, or a refrigerator, or a plumber to fix your bathroom toilet, etc. (The point being from my perspective if you need to return gold to the local currency, it would be easier, safer, and more efficient to do that through etfs, futures, mining stocks, or PM mutual funds).

tia

Sapiens
04-30-07, 10:23 AM
Sapiens, this is the kind of info I am looking for. I would very much appreciate the anecdote(s) that follow along with your statement, like how did you use your gold to purchase land. Was it straight bullion? Was it paper transfer? Was it gold coins? Did you switch your gold into argentinian currency and then buy the land?

This is one of the major hangups I have about owning/holding physical, the mechanics of buy/sell and how you transfer physical gold for either another commodity like land or something more functional like bread, or a car, or a refrigerator, or a plumber to fix your bathroom toilet, etc. (The point being from my perspective if you need to return gold to the local currency, it would be easier, safer, and more efficient to do that through etfs, futures, mining stocks, or PM mutual funds).

tia


DemonD,

At first sight, your question seemed to me odd, on further reflection I think I understand what you mean to ask.

I believe that you are looking at Gold as any commodity, and certainly that is what the authorities have mostly achieved in the eyes of most people by “demonetizing” Gold. To me, Gold is Money as is for any individual that controls vast amounts of property.

Now for an example, let’s say there is an instance where you are in a precarious circumstance and need liquidity at hand or at another part of the Globe; given your assets, you are willing to part with your real property at a substantial discount in exchange for liquid assets as is Gold. Then, given the circumstances we just need to agree on how to consummate the exchange and delivery methods.

-Sapiens

DemonD
05-01-07, 02:43 AM
Sapiens, I have personally never seen gold or silver being traded for a good, service, land, asset, or physical entity. So you are right, gold is not "money" in my worldview. To me, gold is something that would have to be turned into "money," "money" being whatever local currency is accepted (euro, dollar, loonie, peso, yen, etc).

I'm imagining you giving some poor farmer like 10 krurregand gold coins for 200 acres of land and him doing... what, exactly with them? The mechanics of how you trade gold for land escape me, unless you turned those gold coins into a 4-bagger of Argentine pesos and traded that currency for the land.

I have never read a story of someone buying bread or a car or a house in the US with gold bullion. I did read about someone who bought a Stradivarius violin in the Great Depression for 2 dollars - that's 2 us dollars, not gold.

In any case, I'm asking because I honestly don't know how you can possibly do a straight out gold-for-land type transaction in 2007.

Sapiens
05-02-07, 08:00 PM
DemonD,

My dear chap, there are plenty of transactions taking place in the world where Gold is used as Money. Allow me to recommend a journey to India or the Near East to witness a first hand account of such transactions taking place; it would broaden your experience and perception of the mediums of exchange.

Also, for your further edification, permit me to suggest you procure a specimen of the following book:

“Money” by James E. Ewart

http://www.amazon.com/Money-shall-honest-weights-measures/dp/0966357000

It is a priceless jewel that enlightens in relation to our discussed subject matter.

Cheers,

-Sapiens

DemonD
05-02-07, 09:45 PM
thanks for the recommendation. You still haven't answer my question about how exactly did you trade gold for land in Argentina? (Dunno about there but RE transactions in the US involve a lot of paperwork and filing things with government offices and whatnot for the titles/deeds to the properties, none of which I'm familiar with, but the idea of just handing some gold coins to someone who gives you a deed doesn't seem realistic in today's beaurocratic world.)

I'm beginning to wonder if your statement is true. I'm a realist by nature and skeptical of taking people at their word, especially over the internet, without some kind of proof or at least an anecdote on how you did something. What if instead of asking you that, I said "oh yeah, I bought some land in peru the same way." You would never know the difference. Well you would now because I've been honest on my ignorance of gold.

And talk about trading gold in India and the Near East. Yes. Wonderful places. I'll be sure to take my next vacation there. I've always wanted to go to super hot deserts, humid and smoggy indian cities away from coasts where it's difficult to use us dollars for purchase power. Please, sign me up yesterday. yeesh.

Sapiens
05-02-07, 11:24 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if your statement is true. I'm a realist by nature and skeptical of taking people at their word, especially over the internet, without some kind of proof or at least an anecdote on how you did something. What if instead of asking you that, I said "oh yeah, I bought some land in peru the same way." You would never know the difference. Well you would now because I've been honest on my ignorance of gold.



DemonD,

Your uncertainty as to my veracity is of no consequence. As a matter of fact, all statements on the internet should be taken with a heavy dose of skepticism. Furthermore, I must inform you that your brash and impertinent statements are quite offensive given that there is no valid reason for you to be privy to my affairs. Also, your sarcasm is duly noted.

Regards,

-Sapiens