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audrey_girl
08-15-09, 11:34 AM
fyi:

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Raz
08-15-09, 01:34 PM
We need changes in our healthcare system - particularly in the insurance industry. I don't believe either of the two major parties will do what needs to be done, yet even as a Paleoconservative I had some hope that the Democrats would propose a reasonable bill that most could agree on, since I knew the Republicans would never risk stiffing the Health Insurance Cartel.
Well the Democrats proved themselves to be Demonrats and lost me on day1 when they decided to cover illegal aliens.



Who are the Uninsured - and should We Pay to Cover Them?

Keith Hennessey (http://keithhennessey.com/) has analyzed 20 statements made by President Obama during the town hall meeting on health care at Portsmouth, New Hampshire. You can read Hennessey's analysis at his home page.

One of the statements Hennessey examines (http://keithhennessey.com/2009/08/14/portsmouth-20/) pertains to what, for Obama and many others, is the starting point in the debate - the number of people who are uninsured.

In Portsmouth, Obama had this to say:

I don't have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don't have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage. They are just vulnerable. If something happens, they go bankrupt, or they don't get the care they need.
Hennessey breaks this group of nearly 46 million into five categories. The first, consisting of about 6.5 million, actually is insured. According to Hennessey, they are enrolled in Medicaid or S-CHIP but didn't tell the census taker. This is called the "Medicaid undercount."

The second group, about 4.5 million, consists of people who are eligible for Medicaid or S-CHIP but have not enrolled. If they need care, the hospital or clinic generally enrolls them. In other words, they do not (as Obama claims) go bankrupt or without treatment. In any case, it would be ridiculous to overhaul our healthcare system to provide insurance to people who are already eligible for government assistance but have failed to avail themselves of it.

The third group, about 9.5 million, is comprised of non-citizens. Hennessey notes that people will disagree about what portion of this group should receive government subsidized health insurance. In my view, none should.
And keep in mind that being uninsured is not the same as having to pay (or pay much) for treatment. I've heard illegal immigrants say that they find ways to receive free or inexpensive treatment for themselves and their children. In general, I've read (though I can't find the source) that the uninsured receive about half the amount of money per capita to pay for medical treatment that the insured receive.

The fourth group, another 10 million, earns an income more than three times the poverty line. As such, they can afford to buy medical insurance. Taxpayers should not be required to buy it for them.

This leaves about 15.5 million (one-third of Obama's 46 million) who actually are uninsured, cannot become insured simply by enrolling in a free program, are U.S. citizens, and cannot easily afford to purchase insurance. About 5 million members of this cohort are childless adults.

It is understandable that many Americans would like to see the government do something for this group, or at least those members who are not young, childless, healthy adults with decent starter salaries who simply think it makes economic sense to assume the small risk that they will incur large medical expenses. But it is also understandable that many Americans favor targeting this group through incremental measures to assist them in purchasing insurance, rather than through a radical overhaul of our healthcare system at a massive cost.

Obama knows he needs a big number of "uninsured" to even get in the vicinity of selling what he has in mind to a skeptical public. But the big number he has selected would not get him in the vicinity if the public better understood who it consists of.

JOHN adds: Many young, single people make a perfectly rational decision not to buy health insurance. Accidents are the biggest threat to their health; car accidents are covered by automobile insurance and work-related accidents are covered by workmen's comp. The chance of a young person contracting a catastrophic disease (leukemia, say) is remote, and people aren't stupid: they know that if they contract such a disease they will be treated whether they can pay or not. And young, single people have not acquired a substantial net worth that they could lose to medical bills. This is why, when Pizza Hut made cheap health insurance available to its part-time employees a few years ago, hardly any of them (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/02/019711.php) chose to take advantage of it.

One of the purposes of most health care "reform" proposals, stated or unstated, is to force these young people into the system--to force them, that is, to contribute money to pay the medical bills of others, beyond what they already pay in Medicare taxes. Whatever you think of either the justice or the wisdom of such a policy, it is not worth turning our health care system upside down in order to achieve.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/08/024280.php

flintlock
08-18-09, 09:41 PM
I can vouch for the fact that a lot of people who can afford insurance choose not to. I offered it to my employees and one guy didn't want it. Said he didn't need it. And he was no kid. The $60 month was just too much I guess.:rolleyes: That was about 10 years ago and he's no longer with my company, but I still keep in touch. He's never needed the insurance so I guess he played the lottery and won..... so far.

The number of "under insured", now that is a growing problem.

ThePythonicCow
08-19-09, 03:32 AM
<!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> I can vouch for the fact that a lot of people who can afford insurance choose not to.
I choose not to have health insurance, though I could afford it and could obtain it.

I do so on principle, as well as on economic calculation. Conventional medicine in America, like conventional food, has gone sufficiently astray from what I consider healthy that it is better I avoid it and focus on staying healthy by such means as good nutrition. There are of course risks in any course. One can only choose ones poison.

doom&gloom
08-19-09, 04:32 AM
heading into artificial joint #2 soon, i can say i appreciate mine!

ThePythonicCow
08-19-09, 04:50 AM
heading into artificial joint #2 soon, i can say i appreciate mine!
I would sooner know that I cannot readily afford joint replacement, and thus be motivated to take whatever means are necessary, such as diet, lifestyle or exercise changes, to avoid the need.

Something is causing an explosion in the rate of joint replacement. What do you think is that cause? I suspect it is the same cause as that behind the rising rates of chronic illness (cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, obesity, ...) I blame the food, drug and medical industries.

Ghent12
08-19-09, 05:30 AM
I would sooner know that I cannot readily afford joint replacement, and thus be motivated to take whatever means are necessary, such as diet, lifestyle or exercise changes, to avoid the need.

Something is causing an explosion in the rate of joint replacement. What do you think is that cause? I suspect it is the same cause as that behind the rising rates of chronic illness (cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, obesity, ...) I blame the food, drug and medical industries.
Those are very likely possibilities. The true causality is likely an amalgamation of different reasons, such as diet, availability, technology, increase in aggregate age (baby boomers), etc.

My question to you, Mr. Cow:
As someone with the ability to get insurance, is there any "real insurance" available? What I mean is insurance that has high deductibles, but covers catastrophic events adequately and doesn't cover regular doctor's visits.

ThePythonicCow
08-19-09, 07:31 AM
As someone with the ability to get insurance, is there any "real insurance" available? What I mean is insurance that has high deductibles, but covers catastrophic events adequately and doesn't cover regular doctor's visits.
A google search for "high-deductible health plans" should provide you a start on this. There are plans with for example $5000 deductibles. You pay the first $5000, they pay the rest, up to some large cap.

I considered getting one of these plans, but since about the only risky thing I do is drive a car, I added medical coverage to my car insurance (for much less money) instead. This too has its risks of course; but I'm willing to take calculated risks and live (or die) by the consequences.

dummass
08-19-09, 11:07 AM
I choose not to have health insurance, though I could afford it and could obtain it.

I do so on principle, as well as on economic calculation. Conventional medicine in America, like conventional food, has gone sufficiently astray from what I consider healthy that it is better I avoid it and focus on staying healthy by such means as good nutrition. There are of course risks in any course. One can only choose ones poison.

I agree with this bovine philosophy and practice it as well. Over the past ten-years, I've needed to visit the doctor once: after smacking myself in the face with a large pair of pliers (doing something stupid of course). With all the money saved on insurance premiums over the years, I could afford the very best plastic surgeon.

It would be more accurate to say that I am self insured. I keep funds available for emergencies and I make my own decisions on how the funds are spent. :)

raja
08-19-09, 12:00 PM
I agree with this bovine philosophy and practice it as well. Over the past ten-years, I've needed to visit the doctor once: after smacking myself in the face with a large pair of pliers (doing something stupid of course). With all the money saved on insurance premiums over the years, I could afford the very best plastic surgeon.

It would be more accurate to say that I am self insured. I keep funds available for emergencies and I make my own decisions on how the funds are spent. :)
I'm with dummass (how did you choose that name?) and the cow on this one.

I figure I've saved over $80,000 by not having insurance over my lifetime. In the few times when I went to the doctor, I just paid for it. Aside from treatment for an accident, in each case there was no medical treatment available for the problem . . . so I received no practical advantage from "professional" consultation.

For accidents, I do the same as the Bovinator -- pay for extra medical on my car insurance. Now that I've become a hobby farmer, I'm at more risk from things like the tractor rolling over on me . . . so I'm really careful.

I've read that 80% of illnesses are self-limiting.
In many cases of catastrophic illness, medical treatment only extends life for a short time, and that time is often unpleasant. I also feel that my diet and lifestyle protect me . . . and I will not succumb to the usual sicknesses that plague most Americans. So far, so good. I don't even have a medicine cabinet in my bathroom.

Insurance is a gamble.
It's also an educated gamble, if you believe that it's possible to affect your health positively with proper diet and lifestyle.

dummass
08-19-09, 12:36 PM
I'm with dummass (how did you choose that name?).

I didn't choose it; my parents named me Dummass. That's my real name. :D

sadsack
08-19-09, 12:49 PM
I'm with dummass (how did you choose that name?)

His avatar is a clue - "dummass" is one of Cartman's favorite pejoratives

ThePythonicCow
08-19-09, 02:26 PM
I didn't choose it; my parents named me Dummass. That's my real name. :D
Have you considered getting different parents :rolleyes:?

flintlock
08-19-09, 08:47 PM
.
is there any "real insurance" available?

Yes, I have a high deductible policy like that. $10,000 deductible.

Not long ago I would call you guys "going neked" crazy, but as my policy climbs to over $6000 year for coverage that never pays out on much of anything, I have to admit I've considered it myself.



Now eating well, etc, is all fine and dandy. Your approach we used to call " Whistling past the graveyard". But have any of you priced the cost of a seriously broken leg lately? Including rehab. :D What if a hit and run driver clips you while crossing the road and you end up in the hospital for a few months? Serious car accident? Most auto policy PIP coverage wouldn't cover the first day in ICU. If you have the money to self insure then go fer it.

I don't know how old you guys are but I can guess probably younger than me(?) You may find out you are not as bullet proof as you think you are. Most problems simply don't crop up until later in life. Or do you think you've found the cure for cancer? If you think you can 100% control that genetic ticking time bomb of a family history of cancer or heart disease with diet then you must really believe in it. Just be prepared if you are somehow wrong that without insurance you could be asked to put down a hefty deposit if you want that life saving care. Six figures in some cases. Its not like the emergency room. They do not have to treat you. :D And having kids makes a difference. If it were just me I'd go neked. But I'm not going to put my kids in a position where they might not be able to get the best possible care.

flintlock
08-19-09, 08:56 PM
I would sooner know that I cannot readily afford joint replacement, and thus be motivated to take whatever means are necessary, such as diet, lifestyle or exercise changes, to avoid the need.

Something is causing an explosion in the rate of joint replacement. What do you think is that cause? I suspect it is the same cause as that behind the rising rates of chronic illness (cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, obesity, ...) I blame the food, drug and medical industries.

A lot is sedentary lifestyle combined with poor diet and being overweight. Probably most. But some so have genetic or other health related causes. My wife needed a hip replacement at 39 due to an auto accident in her teens that damaged the hip. I don't even want to think about what that would have cost me without insurance.:D She was a passenger in an uninsured driver's car, so no big lawsuit payoff.:(

The real reason for the explosion in joint replacements? They can do them better and cheaper now. Medicare will pay, so why not?

flintlock
08-19-09, 09:01 PM
In the few times when I went to the doctor, I just paid for it. Aside from treatment for an accident, in each case there was no medical treatment available for the problem . . . so I received no practical advantage from "professional" consultation.
.



Well that's basically what people used to do until late last century.:D Worked for them.

ThePythonicCow
08-19-09, 10:15 PM
What if ...
One can only choose ones risks, not avoid any of them.


I don't know how old you guys are but I can guess probably younger than me(?) You may find out you are not as bullet proof as you think you are.
Well, I'm old enough that I won't be "nekkid" much longer, thanks to medicare kicking in at 65. I may be hesitant to even sign up for Medicare however; we'll see when I get there. What I'm doing now is working well.

As far as the affects of aging, I'm healthier now by a substantial margin than I was 20 years ago. My risks of the chronic illnesses such as cardivascular, cancers, diabetes, and such have been driven to essentially zero. The Standard American Junk Food Diet (SAJFD) leaves enormous "opportunity" for improvement.

And having kids makes a difference.
The kids (and wife) were the major thing that kept me on a normal medical insurance plan. Unless one is blessed with a like minded wife, going nekkid with the wife and kids is not really an option. Fortunately, the kids are grown now (barely) and fortunately for my wife, she's managed to get me divorced and out of her life.

dummass
08-19-09, 11:00 PM
Have you considered getting different parents :rolleyes:?

They spelled it Damascus, but my fait accompli arrived on my first day of school. I no longer blame them. ;)

thunderdownunder
08-20-09, 04:05 AM
I have been reluctant to enter any debate on your US health system as I have little knowledge of how it works. The only time I ever needed help was when on holidays in Aspen in 05. I tried out the "snowboard" thing and ended up with a dislocated left shoulder thanks to a tree and the inability to stop. It was fully covered by Travel insurance and I was treated well. My only additional cost was for copious pain killers at Nells bar. Note to skiers - two skis are much better at stopping as you have three times the edge.
A different view of what works

I do feel sorry for you because down here All People who pay tax are covered by "Medicare" and are given a little card with all dependents printed. You pay 2.5% of your taxable income and you pay nothing if you visit a "bulk billing" doctor.
These doctors work on volume and short consultations times of 15mins cycles the down side is that they are not good medical practitioners more like business men. They are Ok for cuts/bruises, suspected sprains and running noses but are totally impersonal and are usually a long wait time to see (2hrs not uncommon) They cost you nothing as they bill the Government for their time.
If you want to chose your doctor and pay the difference between what the government pays him and what he deems to be profitable you can. Typically I have my own Doctor (might I say he is the best of the best) I pay a cash co payment of $32 for each visit and he receives the balance from the government (called the schedule fee).
He is restricted from raising his prices higher because the market would tend to move to the bulk billed buffoon.
Private and competent doctors hate Medicare as all income is reported to the government and they can't hide the cash anymore.It also caps the income of good doctors because market forces restrict how much he can ask for co payment. Wait times are short and the consultation personal and expert.
Ok thats the Doctor side basically explained.

Medical testing

The government has this covered fully.Standard procedure Xrays, blood tests, scans, and all manner of investigative things are TENDERED by private practice and you tend to get them free (unsure about MRI's as never had one). This gives the government the whip hand. Specialized tests have a co payment but it is never much out of pocket. The competitive nature of tender keeps the costs down.

Public Hospitals- State government owned and run but funded by Fed Gov allowance. Out patient treatment (24hr service) is free - completely. As a result Waiting times can strain the patience of Job. 4-6 hrs wait is not uncommon but the treatments are first class. Patients are treated according to emergency at presentation. Amputations Car accidents , shootings and Heart attacks first then progressivly down to little jonnies splinter or Diarrhea. Never ever present at out patients on a full moon Friday or Saturday Night - it is given over to the drug F*%#Ked and the Bleeding Zombies of Youth. The waiting room will look like admission entrance to Hell.

In patients - If you need a Knee or hip job its free in public system but you wait(2 years for non urgent) If you have a life threatening Coronary or Cancer you jump the line by rating and generally the treatment is World class as a public patient (Hospitals train and are overseen by the best specialists in the land)

Private Hospitals - Part funded by government and run for profit. You MUST have private insurance. The treatment is in my opinion less professional and inferior to the public system. The survival rate for say Leukemia in the public system is much higher than in the private system. It could be that follow ups are more intense in the public domain as it is not run for profit.
On the plus side the meals are better and the rooms are not austere.

Pharmacy - Pills for all ills - This is where our system shines brightly - It works like this. The Federal Gov has the Pharmaceutical Benefits scheme - PBS - and it asks the big Pharma manufactures around the World to tender on the pills that are "listed"
The result is that we get cut price pills due to competition. They act as bulk buyer (like Walmart) and distribute to private Drugstores called Chemists (that don't sell milkshakes just all manner of medical supplies). The public is made to subsidized in that you have to make a co payment.Varies up to $25/ prescription . If your chronic and have large prescriptions to fill you are protected buy a cap. Once you spend, I think, $1500 in one year the balance of that year is free.
If you are disadvantaged (poor or on social assistance) your co payment is about $2.50 for each prescription up to a cap of I think $250 annually. after that it is free.
No one begs for medication or goes bankrupt as in the US. Every taxpayer in Australia is protected. It does cost the government more than the Medicare levy brings in but it is a well loved safety net that uses competition and market forces to cap cost increases. It works and it is the best thing to happen in this country. (introduced by Labor under Gough Whitlam)
Wealthy people who can afford private insurance but opt out are penalized heavily with an additional tax surcharge (Thos earning $120,000/year) so no freeloaders are permitted and they pretty soon get themselves insured up as it is way cheaper than the fine. Full Family Private Costs about $4000/ year as some government payments are made to private health to keep costs down. (and encourage private investment in hospitals)

Personal Example of how it all works-
My ex wife contracted CML (chronic myaloid leukemia) diagnosed in late stage. It is incurable or was.
She had Private health cover
She could afford it with what she took from me :( She was treated by an oncologist and was in private care for 10 days until the bastards who had been taking our money for 20 years without much claim pulled the fine print out of the contract and explained that the insured limit of bed days was now exceeded and would she kindly go and die somewhere less expensive for them. Unless she paid full board and keep out of her pocket. At $560/ day it was not an option. Went and sought advise from Social security and as she was unable to work she was given care in a Public hospital under the best oncology professor in Australia.She was put on a course of tablets called Gleveec (Novartis) to stabilize her (this tablet was not on the PBS and cost $52,000 but she was given it free as a PBS trial) Her treatment of bone marrow extraction followed by a proper course of radiation to destroy what remained. Only a small dose of chemo was needed and the extracted bone marrow was "cleaned" of all traces of Leukemia then re injected. She has survived for 4 years and no trace can be seen in her blood. She is back working and is normal weight.
TOTAL COST (after we got out of the blood sucking private system) - NIL to HER
It works because it was designed to use market forces and big stick approach. It is fair to those who pay tax. Illegals and working visa holders are excluded. However in a Life threatening emergency they are treated. No one dies for lack of care.
The US treats its Pet animals better than its people and this must change. Put the Medical monied interest in competition with each other and let the Government buy in to see if it can make a profit (it never will) by competing. Leave the rest up to market forces.

Disclaimer: the above is a guide. The amounts are approximately correct as I am healthy and take no medications at all and am advised by my doctor that all medications will damage the liver or kidney/bladder in the end. Heal thyself with discipline. I am on single cheapest private @ $800/year and never use it.

However Mr Cow How much is the "Deductible" on divorce in the US. Down here they make men paraplegics when they take both the arm and the leg :D

ThePythonicCow
08-20-09, 05:24 AM
However Mr Cow How much is the "Deductible" on divorce in the US. Down here they make men paraplegics when they take both the arm and the leg :D
Your Aussie medical system sounds quite a bit better than our U.S. system. Thanks for describing it. Now I can be even more depressed at how bad our system sucks, and even more grateful that I am sufficiently healthy to not care.

If you let the court decide the result of a contested divorce, then it depends much on the biases of the judge and the skills of your attorneys versus your spouse's. Decades ago, the men usually held the strong position. The last couple of decades, especially in liberal states such as California (where I lived at the time,) the women have held an equal or favorable position in the courts.

But that didn't matter in my case, as my wife and I arrived at a consensual agreement. The details don't matter here; suffice it to say the deal was fair and I did fine.

flintlock
08-22-09, 11:42 AM
One can only choose ones risks, not avoid any of them.


Well, I'm old enough that I won't be "nekkid" much longer, thanks to medicare kicking in at 65. I may be hesitant to even sign up for Medicare however; we'll see when I get there. What I'm doing now is working well.

As far as the affects of aging, I'm healthier now by a substantial margin than I was 20 years ago. My risks of the chronic illnesses such as cardivascular, cancers, diabetes, and such have been driven to essentially zero. The Standard American Junk Food Diet (SAJFD) leaves enormous "opportunity" for improvement.

The kids (and wife) were the major thing that kept me on a normal medical insurance plan. Unless one is blessed with a like minded wife, going nekkid with the wife and kids is not really an option. Fortunately, the kids are grown now (barely) and fortunately for my wife, she's managed to get me divorced and out of her life.

I find some people tend to be generally healthy and some are not. Its not always lifestyle though. Good genes play a big part. Otherwise how do we account for childhood cancers and heart defects? Or my 46 year old tennis fanatic neighbor dropping dead at 46? :eek: I'd say that if you have almost made it to 65 being very healthy the odds are good you will continue to be so for a long time. Taking good care of yourself improves your odds vastly no doubt.:D

When I think about it, I've probably pretty much broken even on health insurance so far. But only because a of a few larger claims.( wife's hip replacement, two pregnancies, etc) I may even be ahead. I think some people are too fixated on the small stuff and want insurance to become a replacement for savings and prudent living, which it was never intended to be.

Pregnancy is one of those things that should not be covered under insurance, but is. So we all end up paying for other people's kids in that regard.

Thailandnotes
08-22-09, 10:06 PM
"This leaves about 15.5 million who actually are uninsured" Raz

I've seen several claims that 100 million Americans have insurance policies that won't pay up. And then there are the situations where even the co-pay will bankrupt them.

My wife fainted in LAX a couple of years ago and was forced to take an ambulance ride to the emergency room. The bill was over 10,000 $. We had insurance. I kept getting a bill for 1,000 $ and arguing that according to our policy I only owed a 10 % co-pay. Finally the penny dropped. 1,000 was my co-pay.

"A google search for "high-deductible health plans" should provide you a start on this. There are plans with for example $5000 deductibles. You pay the first $5000, they pay the rest, up to some large cap." Cow

Yes, but how can you trust one? My brother (American) got in a car wreck in Canada. A month in ICU, over $1,000,000. The plane ride home was over $ 20,000 (medical plane owned by Pizza Hut (YUMS) not kidding). The Canadian government paid all expenses including lost wages for years. No way that would happened if the wreck had occurred south of the boarder.

"I figure I've saved over $80,000 by not having insurance over my lifetime."
That will buy you a lot in Thailand.

Colonoscopy $500, root canal $50, back surgery or knee replacement $2-3,000….ultra modern facilities, computerized medical records, easy referrals, walk-in service. And oh yeah, exact same medicine sold in the US at 10 % the cost.

ThePythonicCow
08-23-09, 12:05 AM
"A google search for "high-deductible health plans" should provide you a start on this. There are plans with for example $5000 deductibles. You pay the first $5000, they pay the rest, up to some large cap." Cow

Yes, but how can you trust one?
I don't know if you can trust one. If they go bankrupt before you need them, or if they dishonestly cancel your policy if you start charging too much, then you wasted your insurance premium.




"I figure I've saved over $80,000 by not having insurance over my lifetime."
That will buy you a lot in Thailand.

Colonoscopy $500, root canal $50, back surgery or knee replacement $2-3,000….ultra modern facilities, computerized medical records, easy referrals, walk-in service. And oh yeah, exact same medicine sold in the US at 10 % the cost.
How would an American contact such services? I have a lasting affection for Thailand, from the 18 months I spent there back in the early 1970's. Heck, I can probably still speak two or three words of Thai well enough that you could guess what I am trying to say :D. Do some of the more reliable Thai medical services have representatives in the U.S., or does one fly over first and expect to stay for a few weeks while one locates services? How does one avoid the less honest or less capable services?

Thailandnotes
08-23-09, 09:21 AM
For major stuff you can google Bumrungrad Hospital. It was on 60 Minutes. You can google Bumrungrad Hospital 60 minutes. If you were saving up for lots of minor stuff, there are great hospitals in many other locations. If you are seriously considering coming here, send me a pm and I'll give you more information.

ThePythonicCow
08-23-09, 10:12 AM
For major stuff you can google Bumrungrad Hospital. It was on 60 Minutes. You can google Bumrungrad Hospital 60 minutes. If you were saving up for lots of minor stuff, there are great hospitals in many other locations. If you are seriously considering coming here, send me a pm and I'll give you more information.

Thanks. I have no plans at present to come. My current plans are to remain in perfect health for another 30 years at least. :D:D

If that doesn't work, and you and I are still both on iTulip, I'll look you up.

Thank-you much, sir.

P.S. -- I see this hospital has a fine web site, suitable for any major nationality to view, at http://www.bumrungrad.com/. The World Wide Web continues to support a dramatic increase in the variety of economic goods and services that can be profitably delivered. This is a form of wealth that I see routinely when I order some strange good that takes my fancy, from the various corners of the world, to be delivered at quite modest cost to my door step by my friendly UPS driver. Such was not possible even just a decade ago. Life is good.

BigLandbaron
08-23-09, 07:12 PM
I agree with this bovine philosophy and practice it as well. Over the past ten-years, I've needed to visit the doctor once: after smacking myself in the face with a large pair of pliers (doing something stupid of course). With all the money saved on insurance premiums over the years, I could afford the very best plastic surgeon.

It would be more accurate to say that I am self insured. I keep funds available for emergencies and I make my own decisions on how the funds are spent. :)

This MOB appears to be real. I've seen very little in the MSM reporting to convince me that these town hall protests are not "real". There may be paid protesters at some of the town hall meetings, but I think they are outnumbered by the really pissed off / fearful constituents.

I have the same insurance philosophy as Dummass and The Cow; I can afford the insurance but choose not to participate. I was fully insured (via corporate group insurance) from age 22-45 ... and I never made a claim. I'm uninsured now because I feel I have sufficient funds to fend off anything short of a black swan - big-time cancer or a long term debilitation. I'm 50, divorced, no kids, working girlfriend with her own mandatory insurance. I considered high-deductible insurance options in 2004 but decided to play the odds; take the risk / self insure. I've saved ~$50K in premium payments over the last 5 years (calculated with the cost of low-deductible coverage offered to me in 2004), and have had no issues ... as usual. I'm healthier now than I was then. Asprin is my medication of choice for most ailments (an occasional headache, muscle ache, a rare pounded thumb or other miscalculation).

This is the last "free market" vote we have against the current US health insurance industry; to choose to be healthy and not participate!. I wish to pay only for what I need. I do not wish to support fraud, bureaucracy, incredible bonuses and a litany of <generally unnecessary> additional procedures/referals. I hope to stay healthy and remain self insured as long as I have that option and it makes good financial sense to me.

BLB

flintlock
08-24-09, 02:08 AM
My brother (American) got in a car wreck in Canada. A month in ICU, over $1,000,000. The plane ride home was over $ 20,000 (medical plane owned by Pizza Hut (YUMS) not kidding). The Canadian government paid all expenses including lost wages for years. No way that would happened if the wreck had occurred south of the boarder.Yeah, I guess healthy living and good genes were not much help in his case.:D
This kind of story is why I still reluctantly pay for insurance.