I don't know if to laugh or cry...

[Mega]

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51162
Mike

[tastymannatees]

And to think he is next line for POTUS

Biden reminds me of Yogi Berra



"This is like deja vu all over again."
"You can observe a lot just by watching."
"He must have made that before he died." -- Referring to a Steve McQueen movie.
"I want to thank you for making this day necessary." -- On Yogi Berra Appreciation Day in St. Louis in 1947.
"I'd find the fellow who lost it, and, if he was poor, I'd return it." -- When asked what he would do if he found a million dollars.
"Think! How the hell are you gonna think and hit at the same time?"
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there."
"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early."
"If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else."
"If you can't imitate him, don't copy him."
"You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six."
"Baseball is 90% mental -- the other half is physical."
"It was impossible to get a conversation going; everybody was talking too much."
"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting."
"A nickel isn't worth a dime today."
"Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded."
"It gets late early out there." -- Referring to the bad sun conditions in left field at the stadium.
"Glen Cove." -- Referring to Glenn Close on a movie review television show.
Once, Yogi's wife Carmen asked, "Yogi, you are from St. Louis, we live in New Jersey, and you played ball in New York. If you go before I do, where would you like me to have you buried?" Yogi replied, "Surprise me."
"Do you mean now?" -- When asked for the time.
"I take a two hour nap, from one o'clock to four."
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it."
"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough in the second half you give what's left."
"90% of the putts that are short don't go in."
"I made a wrong mistake."
"Texas has a lot of electrical votes." -- During an election campaign, after George Bush stated that Texas was important to the election.
"Thanks, you don't look so hot yourself." -- After being told he looked cool.
"I always thought that record would stand until it was broken."
"Yeah, but we're making great time!" -- In reply to "Hey Yogi, I think we're lost."
"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them."
"Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel."
"It's never happened in the World Series competition, and it still hasn't."
"How long have you known me, Jack? And you still don't know how to spell my name." -- Upon receiving a check from Jack Buck made out to "bearer."
"I'd say he's done more than that." -- When asked if first baseman Don Mattingly had exceeded expectations for the current season.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
"He can run anytime he wants. I'm giving him the red light." -- On the acquisition of fleet Ricky Henderson.
"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?"
"It ain't the heat; it's the humility."
"The towels were so thick there I could hardly close my suitcase."
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours."
"I didn't really say everything I said."

[rabot10]

cry jmo or laugh it is kind of funny

[goadam1]

I'll take the buffoon veep over the dark lord sith cheney.

[goadam1]

or we could have Palin, who I know some of you love. That makes me saddest of all.

[rabot10]

I'll take the buffoon veep over the dark lord sith cheney.

Cheney had half is brain removed as part of a face lift - little known fact! Biden hair procedure we took all of the brain - note we didn't find muck brain matter

Palin she has no brain

[babbittd]

Biden is a buffoon, but this quote is probably misconstrued.

Setting aside any discussion about the bill, the plan, for a moment, I'd be willing to wager that Biden was talking about individuals going bankrupt paying for their own medical care.

a euphimism.

[doom&gloom]

If you ever remember anything I write, remember this post.

National healthcare will be designed to:



Eliminate private companies over time
Secure greater power into government
Set coverage limits on seniors and deny services to our oldest
Roll Medicare up into the general population to cover the missing "lockbox" money


Most of this plan is really a hedge to cover the losses of Mediscare (an out of control GOVERNMENT
HeALTHCARE Program) and foist those losses on current taxpayers. This is the dirty little secret Joe
Biden is NOT telling the AARP'ers. This is the dirty little secret the Admin is not telling the people at
large. These costs, and this debt is monumental at best. And because CON-gress could not keep
their hands off the piggy bank, they pissed this money away LOOOONG ago.

National healthcare is going to become a VERY expensive program with not-so-good results over
time SIMPLY BECAUSE of the burden of Mediscare that will be dropped into it.

Now you know the truth that, in the rush to pass and spend, the Admin does NOT want open debate
to discuss these issues.

That said, to spend MORE to try to avoid default is about as crazy an idea as eating arsenic as
powdered sugar on candy. But then again, we are talking Joe Biden here -- so all you people with
Palin Derangement Syndrome -- is THIS GUY REALLY what you want one heartbeat away from the
presidency?

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51162

Joe Biden: ‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’
Thursday, July 16, 2009
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer

(CNSNews.com) – Vice President Joe Biden told people attending an AARP town hall meeting that unless the Democrat-supported health care plan
becomes law the nation will go bankrupt and that the only way to avoid that fate is for the government to spend more money.:lol::roflmao2::lol:

“And folks look, AARP knows and the people working here today know, the president knows, and I know, that the status quo is simply not acceptable,”
Biden said at the event on Thursday in Alexandria, Va. “It’s totally unacceptable. And it’s completely unsustainable. Even if we wanted to keep it the
way we have it. It can’t do it financially.”

“We’re going to go bankrupt as a nation,” Biden said. (Yeah genius, and YOU are taking us there...)

“Well, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going
bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, I’m telling you.”:lol:

The event, sponsored by the AARP – which supports the Obama administration’s plan – was attended by mostly AARP members who were bussed in
for the meeting.

Biden told the group that the Obama health plan will not eliminate people’s ability to choose their health care insurance and that people who cannot
afford insurance will be covered by the plan.

“They’ll be a deal in there so there’s competition, so what you’ll have in there is you’ll have the ability to go in there and say, ‘Now look, this is the
policy I want. This is the one,” Biden said.

“And those people who can’t afford to get in there, up to a certain income, we’re going to subsidize them, you get in there and we’ll help you pay
for it,” Biden said.:eek:

After opening remarks by Biden and AARP CEO A. Barry Rand, the audience asked questions, which were fielded by Biden, Health and Human Services
Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Nancy Ann DeParle, director of the White House Office of Health Reform.

[MulaMan]

There is NO free-market in our current health insurance - same lies as wall-street makes when they speak of "de-regulation"

The American private heath insurance Insurance monopoly / mafia (or whatever you want to call it) is 100% broken.

A reason why you cannot compete with large companies is because of health insurance costs - a huge competitive advantage exists for huge companies in that they become thier own "insurance company" and drive out administration costs that small businesses and the rest of us must pay for.

The current insurance scheme is 100% geared to benefit the same corporate oligarchs as discussed on iTullip in other contexts.

National health care will also dramatically increase competition in the labor market, which will break down some of our huge monopolies. - do you know how many people sit in dead end, underpaid jobs, large company jobs because they have kids and need health care?

Curent health care costs gives big capital a HUGE advantage over labor - one of the keys throwing capitalsim (capital vs. labor) out of balance and helping destroy the American middle class.

Do you know have many small businesses will be created THE SECOND we get national health care?

Large companies may even need to start offering "training" - "pensions" - ect. again to attrack employees because without the HEALTH CARE advantage why would anyone work in a "Dilbert zone cubicle" and "as is" employment if they no longer need to worry about health insurance?

It is very similar to the wall street / washington revolving door in that heatlh costs are expensive excatly because of the "health insurance" mafia.

There is ZERO competition in health care in America. Perhaps only a few "alternative" providers bring in a little competition.

Try starting your own hospital or clinic - you'll be shut down and thrown in jail.

Ron Paul's ideas of returning to "free market' health care is great, but I do not see how we get there from here short of a civil war.

So Obama's plan at least starts to break up the status quo, breaks up the Oligarchs, public insurance competes with the private monopoly - not great but much, much better than what we have now.

Today you have ZERO choice - Obam's plan gives you a choice - PUBLIC or PRIVATE CARTEL - that is MORE competition than we have now. A more free market then we have now.

I pray that national health care goes through - Just wait and watch all the side benefits and economic energy that will immediately be unleased.

Universal health care is the most important ECONOMIC policy that needs to happen, much more then another stimulas. I hope it does not get watered down and derailed by the corporate establishment (oligarchs or whatever) that are rolling out the "will destroy competition - increase goverment - too expensive - socialism" crap as they always do (CNBC, FOX, ...)

[MulaMan]

National healthcare will be designed to:
<B>



Eliminate private companies over time
Secure greater power into government
Set coverage limits on seniors and deny services to our oldest
Roll Medicare up into the general population to cover the missing "lockbox" money. </B>





If this bill elimnates the private health insurance monoplies then it will be a great piece of legislation.
If this bill takes power away from the corporate establishment and gives it to the government (the people) then that would be fantastic.
You can always buy private insurance - many Canadians have private insurance for more coverage. The government is NOT making insurance illegal but is competing with private insurance. Private insurance firms will not have to actually compete with the public plans.
"lockbox" money - LOL. America IS Bankrupt and this "lockbox" stuff is pure politics.
I don't have an opinion on Biden - but kodus to the guy for at least saying that "America is bankrupt".

Biden is 100% correct - why the critisim for someone that is correct? - America IS bankrupt - the Gov / Tresury / Fed / Coporate oligarchs have too much power and too much too lose - hence they WILL SPEND THE WAY OUT.

The only difference between Dems and Gops is HOW THEY SPEND THE WAY OUT - and I'd rather the dems spend more of it on the middle class then the GOP spend it mostly on the rich, relgious cults, & the DOD.

What is YOUR solution? Invade China? Do you really think washington will force the USA into bankruptcy or something? Again Biden is 100% correct.

[Techdread]

I think your right.

However if America copies France or even cough the British NHS the'd get greater savings.

Somethings sould not be left to the freemarket Defense, Health service, Education & infrastructure.

[babbittd]

I wonder what promises and horse-trading Obama and Pelosi will ply the Blue Dog Democrats with in order to get them to back the public option.

[wayiwalk]

There is NO free-market in our current health insurance - same lies as wall-street makes when they speak of "de-regulation"

The American private heath insurance Insurance monopoly / mafia (or whatever you want to call it) is 100% broken.

A reason why you cannot compete with large companies is because of health insurance costs - a huge competitive advantage exists for huge companies in that they become thier own "insurance company" and drive out administration costs that small businesses and the rest of us must pay for.

The current insurance scheme is 100% geared to benefit the same corporate oligarchs as discussed on iTullip in other contexts.

National health care will also dramatically increase competition in the labor market, which will break down some of our huge monopolies. - do you know how many people sit in dead end, underpaid jobs, large company jobs because they have kids and need health care?

Curent health care costs gives big capital a HUGE advantage over labor - one of the keys throwing capitalsim (capital vs. labor) out of balance and helping destroy the American middle class.

Do you know have many small businesses will be created THE SECOND we get national health care?

Large companies may even need to start offering "training" - "pensions" - ect. again to attrack employees because without the HEALTH CARE advantage why would anyone work in a "Dilbert zone cubicle" and "as is" employment if they no longer need to worry about health insurance?

It is very similar to the wall street / washington revolving door in that heatlh costs are expensive excatly because of the "health insurance" mafia.

There is ZERO competition in health care in America. Perhaps only a few "alternative" providers bring in a little competition.

Try starting your own hospital or clinic - you'll be shut down and thrown in jail.

Ron Paul's ideas of returning to "free market' health care is great, but I do not see how we get there from here short of a civil war.

So Obama's plan at least starts to break up the status quo, breaks up the Oligarchs, public insurance competes with the private monopoly - not great but much, much better than what we have now.

Today you have ZERO choice - Obam's plan gives you a choice - PUBLIC or PRIVATE CARTEL - that is MORE competition than we have now. A more free market then we have now.

I pray that national health care goes through - Just wait and watch all the side benefits and economic energy that will immediately be unleased.

Universal health care is the most important ECONOMIC policy that needs to happen, much more then another stimulas. I hope it does not get watered down and derailed by the corporate establishment (oligarchs or whatever) that are rolling out the "will destroy competition - increase goverment - too expensive - socialism" crap as they always do (CNBC, FOX, ...)

I agree with alot you say above about the insurance industry cartel - but consider who helped them create that cartel? Did our state gov'ts have anything to do with it?

I highlighted your comment about how universal health care helping create small businesses. I completely disagree, and this from my own experience. I am a part owner of a small business in the health care sector. Our payroll is about 85% of our revenue. We are very effective in keeping our admin costs down. We don't offer health coverage (we'd like to at some point) - the margins in our industry are small and we haven't reached the size where that is possible, at least for key full time employees. We've been in business almost 6 years - our profit margins were MUCH smaller in our first 2 years of business (well, they were actually negative), and even now, they hover around 10% before owners take any equity out (I'm simplfying here....).

The "share" proposed by Rangel for businesses who don't offer health coverage is 8% of payroll. Of course - that is a high number, a starting point. Let's say the % after negotiations etc, that will be enacted will be 4%.

Last year was the first year we had a profit. This business now pays myself and my biz partner enough (it's part time for each of us, we both hold full time jobs elsewhere) so that we can save for our retirement, help to pay for kids college. Nothing fancy - we're talking about making an extra $10K a year each.

A 4% increased payroll tax would put the company back in the red, or just nearly....which leads to a possiblity we will need to consider is it still worth it to put the time into running the business for no income, to support other peoples health care. Note that most of our employees are part time, and none of our full time staff need health coverage as they get it already via their spouses.

Also - note - this payroll tax, or one at the 6% or more level, will put our minority owned business - out of business!

Can't see how this will encourage start ups. Maybe start-ups in the black market. Yes, I know there are all sorts of conditions, ie, no need for very small businesses to contribute, etc....but you know what happens once a door is opened.

[rjwjr]

It's a complicated problem, that's for sure. I don't believe the government is the answer, however.

Here's what I see. If an individual needs cutting edge, state-of-the-art quality health care then they come to the US. However, I'm also starting to see stories of US citizens going to foreign lands to save money on certain operations and procedures. Both activities make sense to me.

My concern is that the government will kill the current market incentives that make our life-saving/extending state-of-the-art procedures in the US possible. Let's leave the US system alone. The free market will find a way to take care of the problem, it's already working on it, it simply takes a little time.

For example, I have a friend in the medical training field. He tells me there is a severe shortage of nurses in the US. I say, "How can there be a shortage of nurses when general unemployment is so damn high?" It doesn't make sense on the surface, but the obvious answer to my question is that it just takes time. Eventually, those in need of jobs will find their way to the jobs.

I have faith that the same will hold true with health care. There are already signs of progress like private emergency clinics as alternatives to hospital emergency rooms, and personal dedicated physicians outside of the insurance payment system as alternatives to general practitioners within the insurance payment system. Let the free market do its job. It may be messy, it may be moving more slowly than we would like, but the end result will be far better than a Biden, Obama, Hillary, government system.

[wayiwalk]

It's a complicated problem, that's for sure. I don't believe the government is the answer, however.

Here's what I see. If an individual needs cutting edge, state-of-the-art quality health care then they come to the US. However, I'm also starting to see stories of US citizens going to foreign lands to save money on certain operations and procedures. Both activities make sense to me.

My concern is that the government will kill the current market incentives that make our life-saving/extending state-of-the-art procedures in the US possible. Let's leave the US system alone. The free market will find a way to take care of the problem, it's already working on it, it simply takes a little time.

For example, I have a friend in the medical training field. He tells me there is a severe shortage of nurses in the US. I say, "How can there be a shortage of nurses when general unemployment is so damn high?" It doesn't make sense on the surface, but the obvious answer to my question is that it just takes time. Eventually, those in need of jobs will find their way to the jobs.

I have faith that the same will hold true with health care. There are already signs of progress like private emergency clinics as alternatives to hospital emergency rooms, and personal dedicated physicians outside of the insurance payment system as alternatives to general practitioners within the insurance payment system. Let the free market do its job. It may be messy, it may be moving more slowly than we would like, but the end result will be far better than a Biden, Obama, Hillary, government system.

Good point about other options. CVS offers health care services in some of their locations (just checked on Wiki - they have something called the MinuteClinic). Basically - they have a nurse or nurse practitioner at these locations that can examine you for some of the common problems you might go to a doctor for, ie, bad colds/viruses, get vaccinations, etc.

You pay in full at the clinic. Obviously it's affordable - why else would they think people would consider using the services?

The nice part about it is that people going for services there (other people, that is) don't cost me a cent!

[fliped42]

1843

Ok the above chart is CPI inflation for healthcare as you can see the rate of change of yoy CPI in a declining trend since the 1970's has contracted sharply and has stabilized at the low range of historical CPI yoy rate of change of 2.5% to 5%. The sharp decrease since 1990 is due to the growth of managed care during that time. So managed care seems to work and has slowed down the growth in costs into a tighter 2.5% -5% range.

http://www.crisisstates.com/download/others/shadlen(table2).pdf

The free market works in creating innovation as the above table shows the United States produces 47% of the world medical patents.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18802

Even Paul Krugman agrees (paragraph 6) that Universal Healthcare will lead in all cases to rationing. But he says we don't need worry about that now all we need to care about is insuring the most people for the least amount of money.

In a slow to negative growing economy the percentage of GDP allocated to healtcare naturally increases as it is a sticky cost and as the other components fall and Health Care remains flat its percentage of GDP naturally rises. The reason that it does not decline is that unemployed people are given healthcare as part of the social saftey net so demand keeps somewhat constent. Please see below link.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/154

And please if you do not run a business with employees do not discount the costs of this plan to small business. It is a burden. The additional fixed labor cost (4-8%) as well as the 5.6 % tax increase on upper end earners coupled with all of the state and local tax increases will slow growth and job creation as well as eliminate many small companies. There is no magical margin fairy (unlike the GS magical money machine) that will increase margins by 10% to cover the costs. Healthcare costs will not go down they will stabilize at best. There has never been Healtcare Cost Deflation (yoy -CPI) in US History.