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EJ
06-10-09, 08:08 PM
http://www.itulip.com/images/weirdnews300.jpgNews of the Weird: June 10, 2009

Last year’s financial crisis ripped out the thread of credit that held the fabric of our global economy together. Our new iTulip weekly feature of chronicles the unraveling through stories submitted by our readers from around the world. This week’s theme: We demand!

• Spendthrift government demands spending limits on itself
• European socialists demand that America try free markets
• American and French companies demand to not ``Buy American’’
• Japanese smugglers of $134.5 billion in US Treasury bonds demand... wait, what?

Spendthrift government demands spending limits on itself

Last week the Obama administration pushed a brand new government bureaucracy to manage a proposed national health care plan that promised to add trillions to $85.6 trillion in existing public debt and unfunded liabilities. (http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2008/fs080528.cfm) Today the House passed a $4,500 “Cash for Clunkers” rebate program to create an incentive for trade-ins of gas guzzlers for fuel efficient vehicles, presumably to help Government Motors sell their new line of tiny cars that no one wants. The total cost? Who knows?

Yesterday, President Obama in a speech called for Congress to ramp up of fiscal stimulus spending to “create jobs.” Today, the same administration announced its intention to push for new limits on tax cuts and spending programs to avoid adding to deficits.
Obama seeks fiscal responsibility mantle (http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN0938720120090609)
June 9, 2009 (Reuters - Caren Bohan)

President Barack Obama sought on Tuesday to show he was serious about improving the U.S. budget picture as he called on Congress to pass new limits on tax cuts and spending programs to avoid adding to deficits.

Obama urged passage of "pay-as-you-go" legislation that would require any new tax cut or automatic spending program to be paid for within the budget.

"The 'pay as you go' principle is very simple. Congress can only spend a dollar if it saves a dollar elsewhere," Obama said in a speech at the White House attended by several Democratic members of Congress.

(Hat tip member RickBishop)

http://www.itulip.com/images/rampupobama.jpg


The theory of fiscal stimulus is to run deficits to stimulate the economy out of recession. Simultaneously stimulating it and not stimulating is a novel and, as far as I know, has never been tried. The Obama administration should consider the advice, or rather, the remonstrance of that model of free market philosophy and fiscal prudence, the European Central Bank.

http://www.itulip.com/images/weirdeurope.jpgSocialists demand that America try free markets
(ECB) The economic crisis and the response of fiscal and monetary policy (http://www.forexhound.com/article/Central_Banks/ECB_Publications/ECB_The_economic_crisis_and_the_response_of_fiscal _and_monetary_policy/138057)

But let me hasten to add that policy-makers must not get carried away by recent events; they should act in a measured way, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. While governments have had no alternative but to support systemically relevant financial institutions, they should, as a rule, keep their assistance to specific sectors or firms to a minimum. And when they do intervene, they should prepare clear and credible exit strategies. No matter how serious the current crisis is, the market economy remains the best way to organise our economic affairs. It is only 20 years ago since the breakdown of the socialist system in eastern Europe, which demonstrated the failures of central planning and heavy government involvement. Therefore, once we emerge from the current crisis, the role of government in the economy needs to be scaled back. Its presence in the banking sector must be gradually reduced as the restructuring of the sector starts to take effect. The stimulus measures must be reversed in due course. We have seen in the past how so-called temporary measures ended up being permanent.

An exit strategy is a comprehensive programme to withdraw and neutralise measures taken during the financial crisis, without causing any harm to the economy. If they have no well-defined exit strategy, governments may get bogged down and the positive impact of the measures taken may be undermined. A well thought-out exit strategy is needed to reassure economic agents that a timely restoration of the level playing field in the different sectors of the economy is the ultimate objective. As such, an exit strategy needs to contain clear criteria about the timing of the withdrawal of the financial support and the reversal of the fiscal stimulus.

Speech by Jürgen Stark, Member of the Executive Board of the ECB
Delivered at the Austrian Industrial Organisation
Linz, Austria, 8 June 2009

(Hat tip to new member cm)
We know our government is in serious trouble when supposedly socialistic governments accuse our oligarchs of giving too much “assistance to specific sectors or firms.” That’s ECB talk for shoveling US public funds that originate as Asian, Middle Eastern, and European savings into the FIRE industries that own our legislature. Or maybe Stark is talking up the euro.

In any case, don’t you already miss our fake-capitalist oligarchs now that they have, post crash, turned fake-socialist oligarchs? In the wake of the collapse of the credit bubble, grotesque public micro-management of the private sector is meant to demonstrate government commitment to protect the little guy from corporate evil doers. The result is to punish an army of the innocent for the malfeasance of the few, most of whom get away but for the few caught up in show trials. The populist post technology bubble crash legislation known as Sarbanes-Oxley, an accountant’s job program, saddled public companies large and small with a minimum million dollar annual accounting bill. It pales by comparison to the intrusions into business by the current administration.

New populist policies don’t end with meddling in the compensation programs of public companies. US companies must jump through "Buy American" hoops to catch American taxpayer bailout fish. On company balking at the deal is one of our favorite American technology monopolies, Cisco Systems—which monopoly, in case you forgot, was created out of industry consolidation of networking companies after the crash of the technology bubble in the early 2000s wiped out Cisco's competitors, much as the crash of the credit bubble resulted in the concentration of the investment banking industry into a few gigantic firms with little competition.

Why it’s as if government "regulators" let it happen again on purpose.

http://www.itulip.com/images/weirdamerica.jpgAmerican and French companies demand to not ``Buy American’’
Cisco, Alcatel Chafe at ‘Buy American’ Mandate in Stimulus Plan (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_BYB9W44vPI)
June 10, 2009 (Bloomberg)

Cisco Systems Inc. and Alcatel- Lucent want “Buy American” provisions waived for a $7.2 billion U.S. program to expand high-speed Internet access, saying the rules are difficult to meet and undermine the economic stimulus program.

Requiring U.S.-made parts would be “grossly inefficient” and a “radical departure” from normal markets, said Cisco (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=CSCO%3AUS), the largest maker of networking equipment. The comments were filed with the U.S. agency running the broadband initiative, part of the $787 billion stimulus package.

The rules may slow projects the stimulus was meant to spur because telecommunications networks contain parts from around the globe, the two equipment makers say. Congress, seeking to boost U.S. jobs, said funds provided under the law passed in February generally can’t be used for iron, steel and factory goods that aren’t U.S.-produced.

(Hat tip member pksubs)
The entire unseemly sequence of events that followed the crash of the 1980 to 2007 FIRE Economy V2.0 credit bubble is as horrifically predictable as a bad Hollywood horror movie that returns as an even more horrible remake. Call it The Great Depression II: Return of the Idiot Oligarchs. This time the Democrats play the role of populists played by Republicans in the original movie.
"Protect Your Home Markets from Cheap Alien Competition—Buy American!"

"Buy American Made Goods! Keep the Home Fires Burning!"

"Buy Uncle Sam!"

Hearstpapers. advertisements, handbills, letters, posters were spreading these slogans throughout the land last week. Organizations to boost the "Buy American" idea, adapted from the "Buy British" movement-(see p. 23), have been mushrooming for the last half year. When the Saturday Evening Post featured an exhortation by Samuel George Blythe to "Buy American" early last month, the movement assumed nation-wide proportions. And last week in its behalf William Randolph Hearst turned on his big publicity machine.

Mr. Blythe based his arguments for "Buy American" squarely on the fact that countries with depreciated currencies, low wages or both are able to manufacture goods, ship to the U. S., pay a stiff tariff and still undersell the products of U. S. industry. Czechoslovakia, he cited, can lay down rubber boots in the U. S. at $1.16 a pair. They cannot be duplicated by the U. S. for less than $1.48. Japan sells celluloid combat $11.06 a gross against the best U. S. price of $25.86. Certain grades of European steel are so cheap that even if all labor cost was eliminated, U. S. steel mills could not compete, etc., etc., etc. The results, said Mr. Blythe, are closed factories and unemployment. Furthermore, he insisted, the products are of inferior quality.

Among the first to challenge the article was The New Republic: "[It is] almost a world's record for bad thinking and economic misinformation. It is the quaint notion of Mr. Blythe and the Saturday Evening Post that foreign trade consists exclusively of foreigners selling goods here and taking our money away, as its cartoons show us, in bales. . . . Have these gentlemen 'any suggestions as to how foreigners shall pay for the goods they buy from us?" That, most responsible economists agree, is the biggest flaw in "Buy American." Even last year the U. S. exported about $1,500,000,000 of farm, factory, mine and forest products. Foreign countries must sell to the U. S. goods or services of an equal value or pay in gold. And foreigners have already paid so much gold that many of them have been forced off the gold standard. Japan cannot buy Texas cotton unless she sells electric light bulbs in Boston.

- Business: Buy American, TIME Magazine, January 9, 1933 (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,753590,00.html)
Foreign countries must sell to the U. S. goods or services of an equal value or pay in gold? Not anymore. Shoe’s on the other foot, so to speak. Today the U.S. must sell to foreigners goods or services of an equal value or pay in Treasury bonds that we print ourselves. Pretty neat, huh? Worked for the 26 years era of the FIRE Economy era, but not anymore.


http://www.itulip.com/images/fireeratrade1940-Jun2009.gif


http://www.itulip.com/images/weirdjapan300.jpgJapanese smugglers of $134.5 billion in US Treasury bonds demand... wait, what?
US government securities seized from Japanese nationals, not clear whether real or fake (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15456&size=A)

Milan (AsiaNews) – Italy’s financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland. They include 249 US Federal Reserve bonds worth US$ 500 million each, plus ten Kennedy bonds and other US government securities worth a billion dollar each.

Italian authorities have not yet determined whether they are real or fake, but if they are real the attempt to take them into Switzerland would be the largest financial smuggling operation in history; if they are fake, the matter would be even more mind-boggling because the quality of the counterfeit work is such that the fake bonds are undistinguishable from the real ones.

(Hat tip member Sapiens)

<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSCwiTCQYAA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>


Can you imagine the encounter at the border?
“Nothing to declare?”

“Nope.”

“Got cash or other items in excess of $10,000?”

“Ugh, uh.”

“Mind if I have a look in that briefcase?”

“Errrr...”

“Aha! Just as I thought. You’re carrying hundreds of US Treasury bonds in $500 million and $1 billion denominations worth $134.5 billion.”

“Darn! You caught us.”

“What were you planning to do with these?”

“Buy Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Great price!”
Smuggle? What kind of illicit market exists for $135 billion worth of any security, never mind US government securities?

Fake? Hard enough to sell real ones.

Just ask Geithner.

The only possible buyer for $135 billion worth of anything? A government.

Where did the bonds came from and where they are going? Answer that and we may solve a great mystery: how Japan intends to sell its US Treasury bond hoard before China sells theirs.

It's a scam

Here's our best guess at the scam.

Step 1: Take a large short position in US Treasury bonds.

Step 2: Get your Japanese friends to "smuggle" forged Treasury bonds into a country where you are likely to get "caught."

Step 3: When the rumors fly and the bonds tank, close out your shorts.

Beats working.

iTulip Select (http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1032): The Investment Thesis for the Next Cycle™
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Jay
06-10-09, 09:03 PM
Wow. Might need more gold. Fiat going down.

flintlock
06-10-09, 09:31 PM
I really don't understand much about this stuff. Why smuggle US bonds anywhere? Secret sale? Why?:confused:

ASH
06-10-09, 10:35 PM
Where the bonds came from and where they are going? Answer that and we may solve a great mystery: how Japan intends to sell its US Treasury bond hoard before China sells theirs.

That story has been boggling my mind ever since Sapiens posted it.

If that is indeed what is going on (Japan quietly selling off its US bond hoard), then the shit is hitting the fan.

Of course, if one government is selling to another, as is implied by the sums involved, then it also boggles the mind as to whom would like to accept the risk that the Japanese wish to offload. Unless, you know, it's the issuer of the bonds... and then I wonder what could be offered in return.

==========

Edit: My wife points out that this may not represent an actual transaction, but rather a market manipulation. Say someone is short the dollar, and hires some Japanese to get caught carrying $135B in (forged) bonds across the Swiss border, trusting the market to put two-and-two together from the headline to conclude from the size of the sum that a government is selling out of the dollar. Perhaps they can trigger a panic and realize some huge trading gains before the forgery is detected?

For that matter, if this is the work of a government, one wonders why a courier would be employed who is subjected to inspection? Isn't there such a thing as diplomatic mail? Could not a government get the bonds into and out of Switzerland without risking detection at a border crossing? Diplomatic niceties aside, wouldn't any entity transacting in these sums have the resources required to move a few reams of paper undetected? Assuming the story isn't a hoax or misreported, this smacks a little of someone who wishes to be caught.

metalman
06-10-09, 10:55 PM
That story has been boggling my mind ever since Sapiens posted it.

If that is indeed what is going on (Japan quietly selling off its US bond hoard), then the shit is hitting the fan.

Of course, if one government is selling to another, as is implied by the sums involved, then it also boggles the mind as to whom would like to accept the risk that the Japanese wish to offload. Unless, you know, it's the issuers of the bonds... And then I wonder what could be offered in return.

google "134.5 billion"

story's two days old yet not one other news source has picked it up. hmmmm.

google Guardia di Finanza italiana 134,5 miliardi di US




134 miliardi di dollari in Bond Usa nel doppiofondo della valigia. Titoli sequestrati al confine con la Svizzera (http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Cronaca/?id=3.0.3396869573)

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Assets/Imgs/D/Dogana_sequestro_gdf--400x300.jpg
ultimo aggiornamento: 05 giugno, ore 09:13
Milano - (Adnkronos) - I valori erano posseduti da due cinquantenni giapponesi scesi alla stazione ferroviaria di Chiasso da un treno proveniente dall'Italia. Un'accurata verifica dei bagagli ha consentito di trovare i titoli occultati sul fondo di una valigia

ASH
06-10-09, 10:58 PM
google "134.5 billion"

story's two days old yet not one other news source has picked it up. hmmmm.

google Guardia di Finanza italiana 134,5 miliardi di US

Huh. Is "miliardi" Italian for million or billion? (Yeah, I suppose I could Google that, too.) And is it possible that a misunderstanding of translation resulted in inflated numbers reported in the English language press?

=============

Edit: Okay... apparently billion.

metalman
06-10-09, 11:02 PM
Huh. Is "miliardi" Italian for million or billion? (Yeah, I suppose I could Google that, too.) And is it possible that a misunderstanding of translation resulted in inflated numbers reported in the English language press?

miliardi = billion
milioni = million

ASH
06-10-09, 11:03 PM
miliardi = billion
milioni = million

There's also the issue that even the Italians make typos... I'd love to see some corroborating reporting on this.

=================

Edit: Okay... guess my mind is blown, then.

Jay
06-10-09, 11:05 PM
Huh. Is "miliardi" Italian for million or billion? (Yeah, I suppose I could Google that, too.) And is it possible that a misunderstanding of translation resulted in inflated numbers reported in the English language press?

=============

Edit: Okay... apparently billion.
Apparently billion with a B.

http://dictionary.reverso.net/italian-english/miliardo

miliardo sm thousand million, billion


Whoops, not fast enough!

FRED
06-10-09, 11:06 PM
miliardi = billion
milioni = million

We checked it out before running the story here.

The Italian authorities documented the arrest and seizure carefully. Here is a short video.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSCwiTCQYAA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSCwiTCQYAA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

They really did carry it in a briefcase!

audrey_girl
06-10-09, 11:28 PM
That story has been boggling my mind ever since Sapiens posted it.

If that is indeed what is going on (Japan quietly selling off its US bond hoard), then the shit is hitting the fan.

Of course, if one government is selling to another, as is implied by the sums involved, then it also boggles the mind as to whom would like to accept the risk that the Japanese wish to offload. Unless, you know, it's the issuer of the bonds... and then I wonder what could be offered in return.

==========

Edit: My wife points out that this may not represent an actual transaction, but rather a market manipulation. Say someone is short the dollar, and hires some Japanese to get caught carrying $135B in (forged) bonds across the Swiss border, trusting the market to put two-and-two together from the headline to conclude from the size of the sum that a government is selling out of the dollar. Perhaps they can trigger a panic and realize some huge trading gains before the forgery is detected?

For that matter, if this is the work of a government, one wonders why a courier would be employed who is subjected to inspection? Isn't there such a thing as diplomatic mail? Could not a government get the bonds into and out of Switzerland without risking detection at a border crossing? Diplomatic niceties aside, wouldn't any entity transacting in these sums have the resources required to move a few reams of paper undetected? Assuming the story isn't a hoax or misreported, this smacks a little of someone who wishes to be caught.


maybe this is some sort of recycling agreement b/t the Japanese and American governments.

this keeps the Japanese showing up at the now weekly 50+ billion dollar treasury bill/note garage sales and they secretly dump it out the back door to us.

if this is the case, what do the Japanese get in return? American securities from the PPT?

or is the Japanese govt so far into our debt, that they are willing participants to keep the Ponzi/Madoff US Tbill scam going?

dunno - all speculation

rdgmail
06-11-09, 12:16 AM
Now we know where that remaining $134.5 billion in TARP money was supposed to go- to buy bonds back from Japan :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123828522318566241.html

WASHINGTON -- The Treasury Department said it has about $134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund, giving the Obama administration a cushion as it implements expensive programs aimed at unlocking credit markets and boosting ailing industries.
The figure means that about 81% of the $700 billion in the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, has been committed. It also means that the Obama administration may not have to go to Congress to request additional funds, at least until well into the year. Many lawmakers who criticized the administration's bank-rescue efforts have vowed to oppose any requests for more money for the fund.
The Treasury had until now declined to give an up-to-date tally of how much remained in the fund, but some outside estimates had put the figure at about $50 billion. The government has provided few specifics on how it is spending the TARP money since the Obama administration announced a slew of new, multibillion-dollar programs to help stem foreclosures, unlock tight credit markets, revive consumer and business lending, and rescue domestic auto makers.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Sunday that the projection of how much is left in TARP funds represents "a very conservative judgment about how much money is likely to come back from banks that are strong enough not to need this capital now to get through a recession." Several banks in recent weeks have announced plans to pay back the bailout funds they received.
In its estimate, the Treasury projects that it will receive about $25 billion back from banks that have participated in TARP. Factoring in those so-called paybacks, the Treasury estimates that its commitments for rescue programs so far total $565.5 billion.
Speaking on ABC's "This Week," Mr. Geithner said the amount remaining in the fund "gives us -- and this is very important -- substantial resources to move ahead with this broad-based suite of initiatives to help get the financial system back in the business of providing credit."
Some outside analysts described the Treasury estimates as "squishy" and suggested the numbers could be overly optimistic. Virginia-based banking consultant Bert Ely agreed that while the Treasury's $25 billion estimate for repayments is conservative, "the timing of the paybacks is in the air" amid questions over the procedure for repaying funds and any needed approvals. "Maybe eventually they'll have $135 billion, but they don't have it now," he said.
In addition, Mr. Ely said, he expects the Treasury to soon open up TARP funds to credit unions, insurance companies and other financial firms.
Mr. Geithner declined to say whether the administration thinks it would need additional TARP money from Congress. The administration has a number of potential obligations that will need to come from the fund's remaining money, including an expected request from General Motors (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=gm) Corp. and Chrysler LLC for as much as $22 billion in new loans.
Proving just how controversial the bailout has become, Capitol Hill Democrats last week decided against including a $250 billion placeholder in their budget that the Obama administration had included in its plan to warn of the potential need for a larger bailout.
There are several reasons for the difference between the Treasury's and outside estimates of how much TARP funds remain.
For example, the Treasury's projections don't include all of the $250 billion for a program launched last year to inject taxpayer funds into banks. The Treasury projects that program at $218 billion. A Treasury official said Saturday that while the program could cost as much as $250 billion, the $218 billion number is a more-accurate estimate given that a key application deadline for the program has passed.

metalman
06-11-09, 12:21 AM
Now we know where that remaining $134.5 billion in TARP money was supposed to go- to buy bonds back from Japan :)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123828522318566241.html

WASHINGTON -- The Treasury Department said it has about $134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund, giving the Obama administration a cushion as it implements expensive programs aimed at unlocking credit markets and boosting ailing industries.

what a coincidence.

make that 'The Treasury Department thinks it has about $134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund' but doesn't!

vanvaley1
06-11-09, 12:22 AM
Does the guard who found the stash get to keep it if nobody claims it? Might result in some interesting law enforce activity bout the borders in the world...no?

blazespinnaker
06-11-09, 12:23 AM
Isn't the paper itself worthless?

These aren't bearer bonds, are they? Presumably the money is in some account somewhere, and the only way you can move it around / sell it / etc is to talk through some pretty restricted / official / established channels.

My guess is there is either a forgery or mis communication here.

blazespinnaker
06-11-09, 12:26 AM
However, I find the theory of market manipulation credible. Certainly we're moving through a pretty economically dry forest here and it'd be pretty easy to start a serious conflagration with a an incident like this.

metalman
06-11-09, 12:30 AM
We checked it out before running the story here.

The Italian authorities documented the arrest and seizure carefully. Here is a short video.


<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSCwiTCQYAA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

They really did carry it in a briefcase!



FAKE! :D

Fraudulent T-Bills / Bonds / CD & GIC Investments (http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/t-bills.htm)

Cons know that certain people will only invest in secure "non-stock" or they tailor their scam to mimic government-backed conservative securities.

"Limited Edition" Treasury Securities

Certain foreign individuals and groups are attempting to sell fictitious securities referred to as "Limited Edition" Treasury securities. As part of this scheme broker-dealers and banks are being approached to act as middlemen.

The sales pitch misrepresents the way legitimate U.S. Treasuries may be issued, bought or sold and describes the offering as:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having a term of 10 years,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">yielding an annual of 6%,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">requiring a minimum purchase amount of $100 million,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having an initial price of 57% of face value,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having an unspecified offering amount (available for sale until "exhausted"), and</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">being issued in physical (paper) form.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> There is, however, no such security as a "Limited Edition" Treasury security. They are often simply window-dressing for a prime bank or ponzi scam.

The Forms in which Marketable Treasury Securities Exist

Marketable U.S. Treasury securities only exist in three forms: (1) book-entry, (2) bearer, and (3) registered. An overwhelming amount (99.84% of outstanding marketable securities) are in book-entry form which exist not as printed certificates but rather as computer records.

Only .14% exist in bearer form of printed certificate with interest coupons attached but no name on it. Finally, an even smaller percentage (.02% of outstanding marketable securities) exist in registered form with the name of the owner on it. They discontinued the issuance of printed registered securities in 1986.

Scams Involving the Renting or Leasing of Treasury Securities

Cons pretend to "rent" or "lease" Treasury securities which either don't exist or are not even owned by the party making the offer.

If you ask a leasing scam artist to produce the securities or prove ownership, they may be unable to do so and will offer excuses such as "they are frozen at my bank;" "a wealthy philanthropist has assigned them to us to assign to others for infrastructure or humanitarian purposes in third world countries and wishes to remain anonymous;" or "bank secrecy laws of this country prevent such a verification."

Misuse of Public Debt Forms as Evidence of Ownership

Scam artists often misuse documents or forms as "evidence" that they hold the securities and claim that the forms can convey official ownership or title to the securities listed on them.

They will also use a valid CUSIP number of a Treasury security that trades regularly in the market so you can get pricing information and confirm issue of the security. The trouble is that it identifies an entire issue not a particular individual certificate security, nor does it indicate ownership.

They may claim that their fraudulent offering has been certified by an official body such as the International Chamber of Commerce. They may also claim that it is a special issue to the United Nations to pass on to other companies that are willing to do humanitarian and infrastructure projects in developing countries.

U.S. Treasury Bills - One Year "Fresh Cut"

One person who represented himself to be a consultant to lesser-developed or Third World countries offered $500 billion worth of One Year "Fresh Cut" Treasury Bills which did not exist.

"U.S. Dollar Bonds"

Fake bonds, said to have been issued in the 1930's by the CIA to help Chiang Kai-shek fight the communists, and buried in caves by his generals and their heirs for years, have recently been "unearthed".

They are now being fraudulently offered to people at a fraction of their face value.Many inquiries come from West Coast law firms that are checking on the validity of these bonds for clients that reside in China, Singapore and Taiwan.

Most of these fictitious obligations refer to the Ministry of Finance of the United States and the of America neither of which has ever existed.

rdgmail
06-11-09, 12:46 AM
what a coincidence.

make that 'The Treasury Department thinks it has about $134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund' but doesn't!


Ok that WSJ story is from March- but it's still a coincidence.

Slimprofits
06-11-09, 01:19 AM
http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/2-japanese-carrying-134-bil-worth-of-us-bonds-detained-in-italy

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy
Thursday 11th June, 06:18 AM JST


ROME — Two Japanese nationals were detained by Italian financial police last week after trying to enter Switzerland with $134 billion worth of undeclared U.S. bonds, mostly Treasury bonds, an Italian daily said Wednesday. The Japanese consulate general in Milan confirmed that the detention had taken place and said it was trying to confirm with Italian authorities whether the two were indeed Japanese nationals and their identities.

According to the report in il Giornale, two unidentified Japanese in their 50s concealed the bonds, including 249 U.S. Treasury bonds each worth $500 million, in a suitcase with a false bottom that was searched by the Italian authorities June 3 when they were in Chiasso, at the border with Switzerland, about 50 kilometers north of Milan. The daily did not say on what charges they have been detained, but the two may have been detained on suspicion of attempting to take a large amount of securities out of Italy without declaring it because the paper said they had not declared the bonds.

Slimprofits
06-11-09, 01:34 AM
Here is the article from il Giornale:

(just an excerpt, translation via google)

http://www.ilgiornale.it/a.pic1?ID=356715&START=1&2col=


But, once in Chiasso, unnoticed can not pass. The border now officially no longer manned, since Switzerland joined the Schengen Agreement. But customs officials and financiers are still there, and money from traveling even dark here and across the border. The altr'anno had caught a hundred million Americans securities. A few days ago, eight hundred thousand euros of securities in Luxembourg. Less than small change, facing the incredible loot that jumps out of two suitcases. "As a bond by a billion dollars - tells a specialist journal in the art - I never even heard speak. If there are, I believe that circulate only in relations between States. " To understand who the hell are these titles, spoke yesterday of the 007 United States, the Secret Service dell'ambasciata Rome. The international intrigue is only just beginning.

lakedaemonian
06-11-09, 01:50 AM
North Korea has a long history of very aggressive and large scale international organized crime.

The North Korean ship Ping Su is but one high profile and large scale drug and counterfeiting incident that directly implicated North Korea.

North Korea has a long history of infiltration and involvement in Japan and it's organized crime.

I'm not trying to find a reason to blame North Korea for anything in hopes of war...far from it.

But there are precedents......

Just trying to flesh out potential "acts of financial war" if it turns out to be counterfeit and who the puppeteers may be.

IF counterfeit......is it even remotely feasible to run a scam with them? Wouldn't there be a pretty straightforward authentication process/chain of evidence/ownership?

IF real......why no diplomatically protected or at the least coordinated/sanctioned travel arrangements?

I'm no big T-bill expert.......but is this potentially an intentional message being sent.....or an unintentional signal to the masses paying attention?

I'm not a big conspiracy junkie, but this one kinda gives me the willies unless I'm somehow missing the logical forest through the commonsense trees.

xela
06-11-09, 06:23 AM
Also and interview (in Italian) with the Colonel here (http://crisis.blogosfere.it/2009/06/96-miliardi-di-bond-intervista-al-col-mecarelli.html)
Main points:
- they have doubts on the Kennedy bonds, the other seem real at sight; US services help in determining authenticity.
- not the first time US-bonds have been sequestred (but highest was "only" 100 mil. and those turned out to be counterfeits).
- the fine would be 40% or 38 billions euro :D

Chris Coles
06-11-09, 06:28 AM
Also and interview (in Italian) with the Colonel here (http://crisis.blogosfere.it/2009/06/96-miliardi-di-bond-intervista-al-col-mecarelli.html)
Main points:
- they have doubts on the Kennedy bonds, the other seem real at sight; US services help in determining authenticity.
- not the first time US-bonds have been sequestred (but highest was "only" 100 mil. and those turned out to be counterfeits).
- the fine would be 40% or 38 billions euro :D

Why not the ultimate money laundering scam? You steal the paper from someone that will never admit to the original ownership, deliberately get caught, fined 40% and paid out in new money... As EJ says, Beats work.

big67
06-11-09, 06:43 AM
maybe this is some sort of recycling agreement b/t the Japanese and American governments.

this keeps the Japanese showing up at the now weekly 50+ billion dollar treasury bill/note garage sales and they secretly dump it out the back door to us.

if this is the case, what do the Japanese get in return? American securities from the PPT?

or is the Japanese govt so far into our debt, that they are willing participants to keep the Ponzi/Madoff US Tbill scam going?

dunno - all speculation

Hi from Italy. I can't get to date any confirmation of the new on the newspapers here. To me this is very strange. I crossed the Chiasso border some times, and the police almost never stops you.

Obviously I have an "italian face" and I was driving an italian car.

But who in his right mind would try to pass it with a smiling japanese face carrying some billions on board of... a Toyota??? :o:o:o:o

Willette
06-11-09, 08:15 AM
This reminds me of another story about Japanese and bonds. They once issued a "special" series of government bonds, unlike their normal run-of-the-mill bonds. They were used for political payoffs. Years later, they refused to honor or pay off those bonds, claiming that they were counterfeit. The unusual nature of the issue became part of the evidence that the bonds were counterfeit. It was actually a more complex story, because only SOME of the bond holders were stiffed. Others on the political gravy train did get theirs redeemed. In fact, word got out that anybody attempting to negotiate this bond issue would be charged with fraud, counterfeiting, etc. Thus was the government able to "pay" for some goods or services and later renege while accusing the bond holders themselves of a crime. Just another example of some of the games played with government bonds. In the end, they are only promises that government can break at will, and the market for promises is overbought.

Story from Gold Warriors: America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold (http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Warriors-Americas-Recovery-Yamashitas/dp/1859845428/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244722261&sr=1-2)

big67
06-11-09, 09:31 AM
Well.... I just finished reading the stories on the newspapers.

If the bonds are true and not fake, then a 40% fine applies for illegal money transfer.

It's 35 Billion Euros fine....

It's finally time to build that 10 billion Euros Messina Bridge to Sicily, Silvio! :D:D:D:D:D:D

Chris Coles
06-11-09, 10:04 AM
Well.... I just finished reading the stories on the newspapers.

If the bonds are true and not fake, then a 40% fine applies for illegal money transfer.

It's 35 Billion Euros fine....

It's finally time to build that 10 billion Euros Messina Bridge to Sicily, Silvio! :D:D:D:D:D:D

Please, I cannot believe that the Sicilians would want zillions of tourists tramping all over their wonderful vinyards...

sn1p3r
06-11-09, 10:18 AM
My uninformed, naive, uneducated votes are going to

a. counterfeit, scam, etc
b. deep conspiracy of financial warfare

because:

a. because it sounds like something the idiot drug smugglers do like have 1,000 lbs of marijuana in a moving truck while speeding with no tail lights and stolen tags...

b. just seems too out of context, agree with earlier poster about there being more sophisticated ways to move this if you have billions...

TheServant
06-11-09, 10:20 AM
Things that make you go hummm. Seems to be a lot of those nowadays. So what's left in the TARP after the fine is payed. ;-)

big67
06-11-09, 10:25 AM
Please, I cannot believe that the Sicilians would want zillions of tourists tramping all over their wonderful vinyards...

Well believe me, they will: sicilians need the money even more than others.

Anyway: the details are mind blogging: the 2 middle aged Japanese were on board of a "local" train from a secondary station of Milan, that is a train that stops at all the little villages from there to Lugano, carrying workers, students for their daily commutes... you can figure out: on such a train they were as visible as white men in a Zambia village.

They could have used the direct train from the Milan central station to Lugano, no stop train = no chance to get caught...

c1ue
06-11-09, 11:00 AM
Another angle on the 'wierd' news:

1) As recently as 10 years ago, the $134.5B would be one or more entire year's worth of Treasury auctions.

2) Even last year with its then record deficits, $134.5B would have represented at least a couple of month's worth of auctions. Now it is a not atypical week's worth.

So maybe the two Japanese in question were just time travellers - the bonds in question being enough for a couple of sandwiches in 2015 :eek:

vinoveri
06-11-09, 11:05 AM
I'll say it again.
We all trust that the Fed and Treasury's accounting is accurate and honest. Why?
Printing treasuries in denominations of $millions and $billions is a lot easier to get under the radar then printing millions of $100 fed reserve notes.

In light of what has and is continuing to transpire, I've lost any semblemence of trust or faith in the opaque system we call gov particulalry with regards to monetary policy.

vinoveri
06-11-09, 11:12 AM
It pales by comparison to the intrusions into business by the current administration.



do you regret voting for Obama (and the advocacy for him you made last Oct)?

your analyses , forecasts, and presentation of global macro-economics is second to none IMO.

FRED
06-11-09, 11:18 AM
FAKE! :D

Fraudulent T-Bills / Bonds / CD & GIC Investments (http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/t-bills.htm)

Cons know that certain people will only invest in secure "non-stock" or they tailor their scam to mimic government-backed conservative securities.

"Limited Edition" Treasury Securities

Certain foreign individuals and groups are attempting to sell fictitious securities referred to as "Limited Edition" Treasury securities. As part of this scheme broker-dealers and banks are being approached to act as middlemen.

The sales pitch misrepresents the way legitimate U.S. Treasuries may be issued, bought or sold and describes the offering as:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having a term of 10 years,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">yielding an annual of 6%,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">requiring a minimum purchase amount of $100 million,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having an initial price of 57% of face value,</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">having an unspecified offering amount (available for sale until "exhausted"), and</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="baseline" width="42">http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/_themes/copy-of-artsy/artbul1d.gif</td> <td valign="top" width="100%">being issued in physical (paper) form.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> There is, however, no such security as a "Limited Edition" Treasury security. They are often simply window-dressing for a prime bank or ponzi scam.

The Forms in which Marketable Treasury Securities Exist

Marketable U.S. Treasury securities only exist in three forms: (1) book-entry, (2) bearer, and (3) registered. An overwhelming amount (99.84% of outstanding marketable securities) are in book-entry form which exist not as printed certificates but rather as computer records.

Only .14% exist in bearer form of printed certificate with interest coupons attached but no name on it. Finally, an even smaller percentage (.02% of outstanding marketable securities) exist in registered form with the name of the owner on it. They discontinued the issuance of printed registered securities in 1986.

Scams Involving the Renting or Leasing of Treasury Securities

Cons pretend to "rent" or "lease" Treasury securities which either don't exist or are not even owned by the party making the offer.

If you ask a leasing scam artist to produce the securities or prove ownership, they may be unable to do so and will offer excuses such as "they are frozen at my bank;" "a wealthy philanthropist has assigned them to us to assign to others for infrastructure or humanitarian purposes in third world countries and wishes to remain anonymous;" or "bank secrecy laws of this country prevent such a verification."

Misuse of Public Debt Forms as Evidence of Ownership

Scam artists often misuse documents or forms as "evidence" that they hold the securities and claim that the forms can convey official ownership or title to the securities listed on them.

They will also use a valid CUSIP number of a Treasury security that trades regularly in the market so you can get pricing information and confirm issue of the security. The trouble is that it identifies an entire issue not a particular individual certificate security, nor does it indicate ownership.

They may claim that their fraudulent offering has been certified by an official body such as the International Chamber of Commerce. They may also claim that it is a special issue to the United Nations to pass on to other companies that are willing to do humanitarian and infrastructure projects in developing countries.

U.S. Treasury Bills - One Year "Fresh Cut"

One person who represented himself to be a consultant to lesser-developed or Third World countries offered $500 billion worth of One Year "Fresh Cut" Treasury Bills which did not exist.

"U.S. Dollar Bonds"

Fake bonds, said to have been issued in the 1930's by the CIA to help Chiang Kai-shek fight the communists, and buried in caves by his generals and their heirs for years, have recently been "unearthed".

They are now being fraudulently offered to people at a fraction of their face value.Many inquiries come from West Coast law firms that are checking on the validity of these bonds for clients that reside in China, Singapore and Taiwan.

Most of these fictitious obligations refer to the Ministry of Finance of the United States and the of America neither of which has ever existed.

"Only .14% [of US Treasury securities] exist in bearer form of printed certificate..."

If this report is accurate, and it appears to be, then $143.5 billion in physical US Treasury bearer bonds cannot exist:

0.14% x $3.3 trillion total foreign holdings = $4.6 billion.

Not even close.

Slimprofits
06-11-09, 11:21 AM
Press release from the Guardia Italiana di Finanza (Italian Financial Police):

http://www.gdf.it/GdF__Informa/Notizie_Stampa/AdnKronos/Adnkronos_2009/Adnkronos_Giugno_2009/info-1518911049.html

big67
06-11-09, 11:24 AM
miliardi = billion
milioni = million

Correct. I got too confused the first times I was reading data from USA, but here it is:

In Italy (and more in general in European scientific community):
1.000.000 = Milione = 1 US million
1.000.000.000 = Miliardo = 1 US billion
1.000.000.000.000 = Biliardo = 1 US trillion
1.000.000.000.000.000 = Triliardo = 1 ????

So we are "inflation ready"...

big67
06-11-09, 11:27 AM
Too bad Silvio... no money for that bridge to Sicily... :(

metalman
06-11-09, 11:31 AM
"Only .14% [of US Treasury securities] exist in bearer form of printed certificate..."

If this report is accurate, and it appears to be, then $143.5 billion in physical US Treasury bearer bonds cannot exist:

0.14% x $3.3 trillion total foreign holdings = $4.6 billion.

Not even close.

and yet... Guardia di Finanza press release today jun 11... (http://www.gdf.it/GdF__Informa/Notizie_Stampa/AdnKronos/Adnkronos_2009/Adnkronos_Giugno_2009/info-1518911049.html)


Duecentoquarantanove bond della Federal Reserve statunitense, del valore nominale di 500 mln di dollari ciascuno, piu' 10 bond Kennedy da 1 mld di dollari ciascuno, occultati nel doppio fondo di una valigia, per un totale di ben 134 mld di dollari, pari a oltre 96 mld di euro.
E' quanto hanno sequestrato alla stazione ferroviaria internazionale di Chiasso, al confine tra Svizzera e Italia, funzionari della Sezione Operativa Territoriale di Chiasso, in collaborazione con i militari della Guardia di Finanza del Gruppo di Ponte Chiasso, nel corso dei controlli volti al contrasto del traffico illecito di capitali.
I valori erano posseduti da due cinquantenni giapponesi scesi alla stazione ferroviaria di Chiasso da un treno proveniente dall'Italia che, al momento del controllo doganale, hanno sostenuto di non avere nulla da dichiarare.
Un'accurata verifica dei bagagli ha consentito invece di trovare i titoli Usa, occultati sul fondo di una valigia, in uno scomparto chiuso e separato da quello contenente gli indumenti personali.
Oltre ai titoli, i due giapponesi trasportavano una cospicua documentazione bancaria in originale.
Per i bond e la documentazione che li accompagnava, anch'essa sottoposta a sequestro, sono in corso indagini volte a stabilirne autenticita' e provenienza. Qualora i titoli risultassero autentici, in base alla vigente normativa, la sanzione amministrativa applicabile ai possessori potrebbe raggiungere i 38 miliardi di euro, pari al 40% della somma eccedente la franchigia ammessa di 10mila euro.

google translate says...


Duecentoquarantanove bond of the Federal Reserve, the nominal value of 500 mln dollars each, plus' 10 bond Kennedy 1 billion dollars each, hidden in the double bottom of a suitcase, for a total of 134 billion dollars, equivalent to over 96 billion euros.

And 'what they have seized the international railway station of Chiasso, the border between Switzerland and Italy, officials of the Chamber of Chiasso Operativa Territoriale, in collaboration with the soldiers of the Guardia di Finanza Group Ponte Chiasso, at the controls to counter illicit trade in capital.

The values were owned by two Japanese fifties fell to Chiasso train station by a train coming from that at the time of customs control, have claimed they have nothing to declare.

Thorough checking of hand baggage is allowed to strike the U.S. securities, hidden at the bottom of a suitcase, in a closed compartment and separate from that of the personal clothing.

Besides the titles, both carrying a large Japanese bank documents in original.

For the bond and the accompanying documents, which is also subject to seizure, investigations are underway to establish authenticity 'and he comes. If the titles were genuine, according to current regulations, the administrative penalty applicable to holders could reach 38 billion euros, or 40% of the amount exceeding the exemption allowed for 10 thousand euro.

most curious... the japanese bank docs may be fakes, too, to make the bonds look more real.

big67
06-11-09, 11:51 AM
most curious... the japanese bank docs may be fakes, too, to make the bonds look more real.

Fake indeed, curious about what is a "Kennedy bond"...
Do they refer to David Kennedy, Treasury Chief under Nixon? :confused:


the translation is not accurate: it is really not referring to a japanese bank.

It says: "the two japanese men carryed a large bank document in original" meaning that the document appear at first sight to be originals, not copies.

labasta
06-11-09, 03:08 PM
Wasn't Don Johnson caught with $8 billion of the same (or similiar) crossing the Swiss border a few years ago?

Very quick "googled" link to said news item (http://www.viperalley.com/forum/anything-goes/2094-don-johnson-arrested-8-a.html)


Sounds like fraud racketeering (money laundering) to me.

EJ
06-11-09, 03:36 PM
do you regret voting for Obama (and the advocacy for him you made last Oct)?

your analyses , forecasts, and presentation of global macro-economics is second to none IMO.

I was not so much advocating for Obama as afraid, based on information I had at the time, that McCain might pull a Nixon, that is, fail in the pre-election polls but win the election. At least with Obama there existed a potential to avoid disaster versus certain disaster with McCain. Most felt that a McCain win was impossible, but history is full of instances when voters in the privacy of the voting booth did the opposite of what they told pollsters they'd do.

I'll stand by my assertion that electing a black president was an important step for the nation. I will also say that I believe that Obama is essentially honest, but in way over his head. I don't see dishonesty, I see naivety, although tainted with a desire for power. When he appeared honestly surprised by the severity of the economic collapse, that told me he wanted the job too much, always a worrisome character trait in any leader. Others saw this quality before I did.

I expected a man who ran such a tight campaign to run a tight administration, but it's over-stretched and floundering, already taking on Jimmy Carter administration qualities. Partly that is due to his underestimation of the economic trap he let himself be pulled into. Still, I'm certain McCain would be handing it immeasurably worse.

Long before his first 100 days were up, Obama's choices of Geithner and Summers, and the pushing aside of Paul Volcker, were a dead giveaway that we were in trouble. These decisions reflected poorly on his judgment.

I admit, however, that I did fall for some of the rhetoric. Hudson and others here who were more critical were right and I was wrong on that score.

The U.S. is in dire need of a viable 3rd party.

thedanimal
06-11-09, 03:49 PM
Well said EJ, I agree 100%.

metalman
06-11-09, 03:55 PM
the document appear at first sight to be originals, not copies.


original fakes, that is.

thanks, big. human translation always beats machines. that settles it for me.

WDCRob
06-11-09, 04:11 PM
As an Obama voter, I also agree.

I remember reading David Gergen's book on the presidents he'd served and thinking that you could see the seeds of each man's problems in the Oval Office in their known character flaws at the time they were elected - that the White House basically magnified and highlighted a President's pre-existing human shortcomings.

I said at the time (2002) that my worry with Bush was that he was stubborn and not very curious and that would be unlikely to change course if he were wrong about something - he'd just plow ahead.

Obama's problem (IMHO) is that he believes he can always find a multi-party solution to any problem - that there's nothing that can't be solved by negotiating. I also find him too confident that he can solve any problem. In short, as EJ observes, that he's naive. I think he could stand to fail at something big.

It will be interesting to see how he switches gears over the next 18 months or so. He's at least smart enough and flexible enough to realize he's made a mistake.

Despite my disappointment with him on his handling of the economic collapse and, especially, his unwillingness to part with Bush era policies on detainees and state secrets, I still believe he'll fare much better than McCain would have done.

TheServant
06-11-09, 04:20 PM
I contemplated much of the same thoughts before the election. I am best described as a moderate Republican, if you can quantify something like that, but I never even considered McCain. Perhaps it was his connection to Phil Gramm, or more likely, his obvious oblivion to the economic meltdown.

I thought Obama would at least try to hold to his platform of the "President for the People", so I considered him a viable alternative for a while. After that bit of "grandstanding" by both of them during the voting for the bank bailout, I decided against both, and eventually entered a protest vote for Bob Barr. While not all that cathartic, I am glad at this point that I did not vote for Obama.

I am not sure which is more dangerous at this point, that so many people think he is smarter than he really is, or that he thinks he is smarter than he really is. I read a opinion somewhere that he is the first truly "made for TV" president. That really rings true with my impression of him. That scares me given the challenges we face.

flintlock
06-11-09, 05:46 PM
I'm leaning towards Ash's wife's theory. Fake bonds designed to get "discovered" and manipulate the market. I'm also intrigued by the North Korean connection. This would make for a good movie.

I want to add that my thoughts on Obama are very much the same as EJs. He's a well meaning but in over his head President. Just like Carter. I also thought McCain would be even worse, so I voted for Barr as a protest. Normally I don't do that, I try to pick the lessor of the two evils, but in this case, I KNEW either one would be a disaster.

Jim
06-11-09, 06:25 PM
I came here for the foresight this site brings to a complex world. The neon "Socialist" sign was large, bright, blinking, and hanging proudly around this man's neck. Are any of you really suprised at the result? Unbelievable!

c1ue
06-11-09, 06:53 PM
I expected a man who ran such a tight campaign to run a tight administration, but it's over-stretched and floundering, already taking on Jimmy Carter administration qualities. Partly that is due to his underestimation of the economic trap he let himself be pulled into. Still, I'm certain McCain would be handing it immeasurably worse.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

While I absolutely agree McCain is the original FIRE boobie, on the other hand with McCain at least there would have been divided government.

If TARP was a challenge with both a Presidential and Congressional mandate, I think it would have been even more challenging with someone as confrontational and gung-ho as McCain.

Certainly Pelosi and others would have gone out of their way to insert sticks into McCain's bicycle tires.

Thus in this path not taken - the worst qualities of both sides could have cancelled out with only the most pressing resolutions pushed through.

Certainly I do not see how McCain could possibly have chosen a worse Sec. Treasury or economic advisor - that Summers/Rubin would return was absolutely no secret given the pre-election Obama team.

sn1p3r
06-11-09, 07:01 PM
in the words of SouthPark...a giant douche and a turd sandwich...we def need a 3rd party but more than that we need Americans to realize that we need a 3rd party...the only thing I'm hopeful for is that Obama will bring about that realization by...dare I say it...."failing" :eek:

sn1p3r
06-11-09, 07:05 PM
can't have a reference without a video

<embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:southparkstudios.com:154582" width="480" height="400" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="window" flashVars="autoPlay=false&dist=http://www.southparkstudios.com&orig=" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" allownetworking="all" bgcolor="#000000"></embed>

metalman
06-11-09, 07:40 PM
I came here for the foresight this site brings to a complex world. The neon "Socialist" sign was large, bright, blinking, and hanging proudly around this man's neck. Are any of you really suprised at the result? Unbelievable!

mccain = right wing fire/oligarch man

obama = left wing fire/oligarch man

paul = right wing libertarian anti-fire/oligarch

kucinich = left wing libertarian anti-fire/oligarch

remember this?

Forget the Fed - Part II: Politics of FIRE (http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15387#post15387)


http://www.itulip.com/forums/../images/firecandidates.jpg


During the first six months of 2007 presidential candidates raised more than $277 million. The left and right wing Anti-FIRE Economy
candidates have raised a total of $4 million, with Ron Paul raising $3 million to Kucinich's $1 million. The Anti-FIRE Economy
candidates have together raised 1.5% of the total for all bought and paid for FIRE Economy candidates.

Jim
06-11-09, 09:26 PM
Thanks for the link Metalman. And I thought Pres. Bush was the first to suggest we have to destroy capitalism in order to save it. Truly a site ahead of its time :o. I think I'll stick around for a while.

strittmatter
06-11-09, 09:38 PM
Long before his first 100 days were up, Obama's choices of Geithner and Summers, and the pushing aside of Paul Volcker, were a dead giveaway that we were in trouble. These decisions reflected poorly on his judgment.

This was the point where I felt I had been duped/played, etc.

Fell for the rhetoric? Yes. Maybe I wanted it too much.

Sharky
06-11-09, 11:19 PM
The Italian press release describes the bonds as "Federal Reserve Bonds." Those are not the same as US Treasury bonds. For an idea of what they look like, check out this video:

<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M7PoRg0CEcw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

Notice that some of the bonds shown there look like the ones in the photos.

The Fed themselves clearly say that they have never issued bonds:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boardDocs/SRLetters/2003/sr0314.htm

There is certainly precedent for forging Federal Reserve Bonds. $2 trillion worth of forgeries were confiscated in the Philippines in 2001:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/massive-counterfeit-money-hoard-uncovered-in-joint-operation-692676.html

Chris Coles
06-12-09, 06:15 AM
The U.S. is in dire need of a viable 3rd party.

Then form one dear Eric, dear Eric, dear Eric, then form one dear Eric, dear Eric; form one! (based upon the song; There's a hole in my bucket).

All joking aside; you need much more than a new third party. First and foremost, you need the rules we have here in the UK which make it impossible to raise large sums of money for TV or radio advertising. Plus you absolutely need a complete change of rules about funding.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/party-finance

Here, all political parties are limited to strictly applied rules.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/elections/election-spending

For example, they get a five minute slot on the TV on all channels and then the next day "The political slot" is taken by the next party and so on and even that is restricted to those that already show they have sufficient support. Again, I have said this before, you need a completely new and completely independent news organisation set up with the same ethos as the BBC.

You need a US version of the good old BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

Programs such as Question Time on BBC TV http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm

Last nights show: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00l2sbf/Question_Time_11_06_2009/

More of the same: http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?go=homepage&scope=all&q=Question+Time&Search=Search

and the remarkable record of forceful interviewing by the likes of John Humphreys on the morning BBC radio program Radio 4 Today, http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/about_today/default.stm

Finally there is Panorama http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/default.stm

Then add the input of our newer channel Channel 4 TV http://www.channel4.com/

with Channel 4 News http://www.channel4.com/news/ being by far the best straight news program on TV at the moment and add in Dispatches http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches and you get a very heady mix of unbiased news coverage of a sort you never ever see in the US.

Just making these initial changes will go a long way towards keeping the debate firmly centred upon getting at the facts rather than being constantly presented with "guided by the money" debate as we see on the US TV.

Turning to the debate about the White House Team, EJ, you need much more than a third party and limiting your aiming point to that single aim will not bring you the changes you desire. Turning to your new President Mr Barack Obama; it is no good arguing that he is making the wrong choices for the team that surrounds him. What everyone must do is set about arguing directly with him that he needs to establish a new team made up from a much better list of candidates.

So that starting point requires we all of us outside of the political elite start to debate who he should have on board. I take you back to the re-start of iTulip EJ, you set up a debate on the Federal Reserve by establishing a Shadow Fed Committee. Now I challenge you to set up a new, shall we title it... Shadow White House Team debate which will be set up to openly debate the existing teams shortcomings and who you all think should replace them.

If you do the business, as they say, then the results of that debate should be sufficiently public as to have the essential element of an open page for Mr President himself to use as an aid memoir for his long term team building.

Your new team will have to produce detailed debates about the shortcomings of the present team, while at the same time, to provide balance, give heads up to any success.

I am British and have already been advised by the US State Department that they have refused me US citizenship, so you must not include me in that new team. I only have the right to suggest that you take these courses of action. And that is in the end the only way forward, you must stop thinking about the changes you require and act to make them happen.

ThePythonicCow
06-12-09, 06:42 AM
I will also say that I believe that Obama is essentially honeststill :)

Still, I'm certain McCain would be handing it immeasurably worse. Ah ... the ever popular "the other side sucks worse" defense. As usual, at least half right. McCain is certainly clue deficient in economic matters.

The U.S. is in dire need of a viable 3rd party.I am afraid it will take more than that.

metalman
06-12-09, 09:36 AM
Then form one dear Eric, dear Eric, dear Eric, then form one dear Eric, dear Eric; form one! (based upon the song; There's a hole in my bucket).

All joking aside; you need much more than a new third party. First and foremost, you need the rules we have here in the UK which make it impossible to raise large sums of money for TV or radio advertising. Plus you absolutely need a complete change of rules about funding.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/party-finance

Here, all political parties are limited to strictly applied rules.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/elections/election-spending

For example, they get a five minute slot on the TV on all channels and then the next day "The political slot" is taken by the next party and so on and even that is restricted to those that already show they have sufficient support. Again, I have said this before, you need a completely new and completely independent news organisation set up with the same ethos as the BBC.

You need a US version of the good old BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/

Programs such as Question Time on BBC TV http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm

Last nights show: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00l2sbf/Question_Time_11_06_2009/

More of the same: http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?go=homepage&scope=all&q=Question+Time&Search=Search

and the remarkable record of forceful interviewing by the likes of John Humphreys on the morning BBC radio program Radio 4 Today, http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/about_today/default.stm

Finally there is Panorama http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/default.stm

Then add the input of our newer channel Channel 4 TV http://www.channel4.com/

with Channel 4 News http://www.channel4.com/news/ being by far the best straight news program on TV at the moment and add in Dispatches http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches and you get a very heady mix of unbiased news coverage of a sort you never ever see in the US.

Just making these initial changes will go a long way towards keeping the debate firmly centred upon getting at the facts rather than being constantly presented with "guided by the money" debate as we see on the US TV.

Turning to the debate about the White House Team, EJ, you need much more than a third party and limiting your aiming point to that single aim will not bring you the changes you desire. Turning to your new President Mr Barack Obama; it is no good arguing that he is making the wrong choices for the team that surrounds him. What everyone must do is set about arguing directly with him that he needs to establish a new team made up from a much better list of candidates.

So that starting point requires we all of us outside of the political elite start to debate who he should have on board. I take you back to the re-start of iTulip EJ, you set up a debate on the Federal Reserve by establishing a Shadow Fed Committee. Now I challenge you to set up a new, shall we title it... Shadow White House Team debate which will be set up to openly debate the existing teams shortcomings and who you all think should replace them.

If you do the business, as they say, then the results of that debate should be sufficiently public as to have the essential element of an open page for Mr President himself to use as an aid memoir for his long term team building.

Your new team will have to produce detailed debates about the shortcomings of the present team, while at the same time, to provide balance, give heads up to any success.

I am British and have already been advised by the US State Department that they have refused me US citizenship, so you must not include me in that new team. I only have the right to suggest that you take these courses of action. And that is in the end the only way forward, you must stop thinking about the changes you require and act to make them happen.

...and get gordon brown and tony blair? bwah ha ha!

we_are_toast
06-12-09, 10:21 AM
EJ, WDCRob, Chris C, you're all correct in your assessments.

Until we get the money out of this corrupt political system, it doesn't matter what issue you are concerned about, the lobbyists and campaign contributors will get what they want. Public financing is the only way out of this mess. We've got a far better chance of fixing the corrupt campaign contribution system we have now, than of starting a 3rd party that can be equally corrupted when the big money starts flowing in.

I still hold some hope that Obama will wake up. Summers and Geithner get regular criticism from all ends of the political spectrum. The sooner the green shoots dry out and start burning, the sooner the President will have to make major economic changes, even if it's for political purposes.

I fully agree that the President is honest and naive, but he is still far better than the alternative. Rob's observation that the President is constantly trying to reach compromise on every issue, exactly the opposite of the ideological stubbornness of the past administration, is a good one. The Republican party is now completely controlled by the very extreme, and to believe you can put your head in the oven and your feet in the freezer to reach a legitimate compromise, is absurd. The President will have to show some spine on some issues. When he does, I'll feel more confident he is ready to take on the FIRE interests.

metalman
06-12-09, 06:27 PM
world press scooped by sapiens!
(http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10322)
Italian Police Ask SEC to Authenticate Seized US Treasuries (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo)

Bloomberg - ‎2 hours ago‎
By Sonia Sirletti and John Glover June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Italy's financial police said they asked the US Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate ...


Japan Probes Report Two Seized With Undeclared Bonds (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=ayy1QKcwcGN0)

Bloomberg - ‎13 hours ago‎
By Shunichi Ozasa and Makiko Kitamura June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan is investigating reports two of its citizens were detained in Italy after allegedly ...



2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of US bonds detained in Italy (http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/2-japanese-carrying-134-bil-worth-of-us-bonds-detained-in-italy)

Japan Today - ‎Jun 10, 2009‎
Two Japanese nationals were detained by Italian financial police last week after trying to enter Switzerland with $134 billion worth of undeclared US bonds, ...


Bogus Bonds? (http://community2.myfoxorlando.com/_Bogus-Bonds/BLOG/346288/72667.html)

MyFoxOrlando.com - ‎2 hours ago‎
Italian Investagators recently have detained two Japanese nationals at the Swiss border. They have siezed over $130 billion in US bonds and other securities ...


Italian customs may have stumbled on largest smuggling attempt ever (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/272969,italian-customs-may-have-stumbled-on-largest-smuggling-attempt-ever.html)

Earthtimes (press release) - ‎5 hours ago‎
Chiasso, Italy - Italian finance police on Friday reportedly arrested two men crossing into Switzerland carrying what looks to be around 135 billion dollars ...



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Italian border police snag $135 Billion in US bonds (http://www.gadling.com/2009/06/12/italian-border-police-snag-135-billion-in-us-bonds/)

Gadling - ‎5 hours ago‎
by Scott Carmichael on Jun 12th 2009 at 1:30PM Border police are always on the lookout for the next big catch. I'm sure every border cop dreams of being the ...



Seizure of US government bonds from two Japanese men in Italy ... (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15505&size=A)

AsiaNews.it - ‎5 hours ago‎
Seized US bonds are worth US$ 134.5 billion. The whole affair touches a number of economic and political issues. For some the resignation of Japan's ...



2 Japanese w/ $134 BILLION in US Bonds Busted at Swiss Border (http://www.opednews.com/articles/2-Japanese-w--134-BILLION-by-Max-Respect-090611-464.html)

OpEdNews - ‎6 hours ago‎
by Max Respect Page 1 of 1 page(s) 249 bonds of the Federal Reserve of the United States, each with nominal value of 500 million dollars, ...



Italian Police Hold Japanese With "Bonds Worth $134 Billion" (http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-actualite/marches/italian-police-hold-japanese-with-bonds-worth-S1-4-billion-683458)

EasyBourse.com - ‎6 hours ago‎
ROME (AFP)--Italian financial police said Friday they were holding two Japanese men stopped on the Swiss border with US bonds allegedly worth $134 billion, ...



Billions in US bonds seized in smuggling operation (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/12/billions-in-us-bonds-seized-in-smuggling-operation/)

Hot Air - ‎7 hours ago‎
For those who love a mystery, this story has more than one. Italian authorities seized more than $130 billion in bonds from two Japanese nationals as they ...



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Customs Finds $134 Billion in a Suitcase (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,630158,00.html)

Spiegel Online - ‎8 hours ago‎
It is either the biggest smuggling operation in history -- or a fraud of equally impressive proportions. Italian customs officials stopped two men at the ...



$134 billion in US bonds found in Italy (http://www.examiner.com/x-2888-World-News-Examiner%7Ey2009m6d12-134-billion-in-US-bonds-found-in-Italy)

Examiner.com - ‎8 hours ago‎
Two Japanese nationals were detained in northern Italy last week by Italian police. These men were found with "249 US Treasury bonds each worth $500 million ...



Who was Smuggling $134bn in US Bonds into Switzerland? (http://www.globalpost.com/webblog/commerce/who-was-smuggling-134bn-us-bonds-switzerland)

GlobalPost - ‎9 hours ago‎
Sometimes a bizarre event seems to capture the madness of the times, and this news from Bloomberg fits the bill. A couple of Asians carrying Japanese ...



Two Japanese citizens arrested for carrying $134 billion of bonds (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20090612/japanese-citizens-bonds-arrests.htm)

International Business Times UK - ‎4 hours ago‎
A pair of Japanese citizens have been detained by Italian financial police in Chiasso on the Swiss-Italian border after being found with $134 billion of US ...



Quantitative stealing? (http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/06/12/56978/quantitative-stealing/)

FT Alphaville - ‎11 hours ago‎
An odd little story this - or perhaps an absolutely massive one - that's been largely overlooked. We picked it up from the blog Cryptogon, ...



Japanese TV Discovers The Case Of The $134.5 Billion In Seized ... (http://www.businessinsider.com/japanese-tv-discovers-the-case-of-the-1345-billion-in-seized-bonds-clip-2009-6)

The Business Insider - ‎11 hours ago‎
We're still fascinated and intrigued by the seizure of $134.5 BILLION in (probably counterfeit) US bearer bonds in Italy this week. ...



Italy seizes $135B of US bonds from two Japanese citizens (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20090611/italy-seizes-135b-us-bonds-from-two-japanese-citizens.htm)

International Business Times - ‎22 hours ago‎
Two Japanese citizens carrying $134 billion worth of US bonds were detained last week by Italy's financial police at Chiasso (40km from Milan) on the border ...



Is it all funny money? (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/11/741373/-Is-it-all-funny-money)

Daily Kos - ‎Jun 11, 2009‎
by gjohnsit Bonds worth US$ 134.5 billion are seized. This is the largest financial smuggling case in history. But are they real? Concern over 'funny money' ...



Italy Seizes A Ridiculous $135 BILLION Worth Of Smuggled US Bonds (http://www.businessinsider.com/italy-seizes-a-ridiculous-135-billion-worth-of-smuggled-us-bonds-2009-6)

The Business Insider - ‎Jun 11, 2009‎
Asia Times: Italy's financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km ...



Italian border guards seize $134 billion in US bonds at Swiss border (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Italian_border_guards_seize_$134_billion_in_US_bon ds_at_Swiss_border)

Wikinews - ‎Jun 11, 2009‎
Italian police of the Guardia di Finanza have seized US$134 billion (€96 billion) of United States bearer bonds at the border with Switzerland at Chiasso. ...

leegs
06-12-09, 08:27 PM
EJ, WDCRob, Chris C, you're all correct in your assessments.

Until we get the money out of this corrupt political system, it doesn't matter what issue you are concerned about, the lobbyists and campaign contributors will get what they want. Public financing is the only way out of this mess. We've got a far better chance of fixing the corrupt campaign contribution system we have now, than of starting a 3rd party that can be equally corrupted when the big money starts flowing in.

.

This topic was discussed at length in EJs thread regarding a third party. One opinion that I adopted as a result of that discussion is that campaign finance reform is probably impossible, if perhaps not even bad in some ways. I think that term limits on Congress would be a more powerful impediment to the development of corruption that we are now seeing.

vanvaley1
06-12-09, 08:50 PM
Tax political contributions. 5% for $10 bucks and under and 95% for anything above that. Call it a political service tax. Taxes raised to go toward paying down the debt...the patriotic thing to do. So contributors know they supporting the US by providing political contributions. Who could possibly be against this and mom's apple pie?

That outta put a dent in the influence that lobbyists wield.

metalman
06-12-09, 09:11 PM
Tax political contributions.

that's the one tax congress will never pass.

BuckarooBanzai
06-13-09, 12:36 AM
I was not so much advocating for Obama as afraid, based on information I had at the time, that McCain might pull a Nixon, that is, fail in the pre-election polls but win the election. At least with Obama there existed a potential to avoid disaster versus certain disaster with McCain. Most felt that a McCain win was impossible, but history is full of instances when voters in the privacy of the voting booth did the opposite of what they told pollsters they'd do.

I'll stand by my assertion that electing a black president was an important step for the nation. I will also say that I believe that Obama is essentially honest, but in way over his head. I don't see dishonesty, I see naivety, although tainted with a desire for power. When he appeared honestly surprised by the severity of the economic collapse, that told me he wanted the job too much, always a worrisome character trait in any leader. Others saw this quality before I did.

I expected a man who ran such a tight campaign to run a tight administration, but it's over-stretched and floundering, already taking on Jimmy Carter administration qualities. Partly that is due to his underestimation of the economic trap he let himself be pulled into. Still, I'm certain McCain would be handing it immeasurably worse.

Long before his first 100 days were up, Obama's choices of Geithner and Summers, and the pushing aside of Paul Volcker, were a dead giveaway that we were in trouble. These decisions reflected poorly on his judgment.

I admit, however, that I did fall for some of the rhetoric. Hudson and others here who were more critical were right and I was wrong on that score.

The U.S. is in dire need of a viable 3rd party.

Politicians are masters of the art of illusion. They are-- at best-- confidence artists. They are, at worst, sociopaths. Incidentally, if you look at the clinical definition of a sociopath, the defining characteristics are almost identical to that of your garden-variety politician.

How does one properly evaluate a con artist? When you know they make their living mixing lies and the truth, how do you sort out the truth?

Rule 1: NEVER listen to what they say. Instead, look at what they DO.

Obama's track record in Illinois was clear to anyone who had eyes to see. He was socialist, bordering on marxist.

Rule 2: Carefully examine who they associate with.

Again-- the warning signs were there for anyone who bothered to look. One the one hand, you had clear associations with extremely dubious personalities from the revolutionary left (William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright), on the other hand, you had traditional liberal power brokers (the Harvard crowd, the Wall Street crowd who gave him a gigantic amount of campaign financing). At best, this indicates that he is a very confused about his own identity. At worst, it indicates a highly unstable personality, possibly someone who has multiple personalities.

Rule 3: Carefully examine the family and work environment for clues.

Well his family situation was about as big a mess as you could imagine. Crazy hippie mother who dragged him all over the world, and an alcoholic bigamist father who killed himself in a car accident.

As far as his work environment... he spent most of his political career in Chicago-- the most notoriously corrupt political environment in the country. How many politicians have ascended to the executive level directly from big-city politics? Doesn't that strike anyone as odd? Especially given that the big city involved is just about the most corrupt in america? (I discount the few years in the US Senate as he treated it basically as a waiting room for a presidential bid)

Conclusion: I simply cannot believe anybody is even the tiniest bit surprised at the results of electing this man president. All the signs were there, clear as day.

As far as arguing whether McCain would be better or worse... well what's the point of that??? By applying the same 3 rules above to him, you could see he would make a terrible president as well. But I think the one thing you can say is that Obama represents much more of a danger to this country in that he is such a complete outlier. Look at his weird family background, his weird associations, his very unusual pre-presidential political background.

The more I see of Obama in office, the more terrified I am for my country.

Ann
06-13-09, 01:07 AM
Politicians are masters of the art of illusion. They are-- at best-- confidence artists. They are, at worst, sociopaths. Incidentally, if you look at the clinical definition of a sociopath, the defining characteristics are almost identical to that of your garden-variety politician.

How does one properly evaluate a con artist? When you know they make their living mixing lies and the truth, how do you sort out the truth?

Rule 1: NEVER listen to what they say. Instead, look at what they DO.

Obama's track record in Illinois was clear to anyone who had eyes to see. He was socialist, bordering on marxist.

Rule 2: Carefully examine who they associate with.

Again-- the warning signs were there for anyone who bothered to look. One the one hand, you had clear associations with extremely dubious personalities from the revolutionary left (William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright), on the other hand, you had traditional liberal power brokers (the Harvard crowd, the Wall Street crowd who gave him a gigantic amount of campaign financing). At best, this indicates that he is a very confused about his own identity. At worst, it indicates a highly unstable personality, possibly someone who has multiple personalities.

Rule 3: Carefully examine the family and work environment for clues.

Well his family situation was about as big a mess as you could imagine. Crazy hippie mother who dragged him all over the world, and an alcoholic bigamist father who killed himself in a car accident.

As far as his work environment... he spent most of his political career in Chicago-- the most notoriously corrupt political environment in the country. How many politicians have ascended to the executive level directly from big-city politics? Doesn't that strike anyone as odd? Especially given that the big city involved is just about the most corrupt in america? (I discount the few years in the US Senate as he treated it basically as a waiting room for a presidential bid)

Conclusion: I simply cannot believe anybody is even the tiniest bit surprised at the results of electing this man president. All the signs were there, clear as day.

As far as arguing whether McCain would be better or worse... well what's the point of that??? By applying the same 3 rules above to him, you could see he would make a terrible president as well. But I think the one thing you can say is that Obama represents much more of a danger to this country in that he is such a complete outlier. Look at his weird family background, his weird associations, his very unusual pre-presidential political background.

The more I see of Obama in office, the more terrified I am for my country.

Thank God for Winston Churchill, the alcoholic manic-depressive.

Andreuccio
06-13-09, 02:05 AM
thanks, big. human translation always beats machines. that settles it for me.

Well, that makes me feel a bit better. :)

Andreuccio
06-13-09, 02:20 AM
world press scooped by sapiens!
(http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10322)



If I remember correctly, he was a day or two ahead of the US press on the Swine Flu thing, too.

Adeptus
06-13-09, 04:25 AM
5 minute multi-theory ramble on Youtube about the 134 Billion smuggle...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWIkzahIP2I

ThePythonicCow
06-13-09, 01:11 PM
Thank God for Winston Churchill, the alcoholic manic-depressive.
Find out what Churchill drank and send a barrel of it to each of the other world leaders! (Adapted from Abe Lincoln's remark concerning General Ulysses S. Grant.)

Jay
06-13-09, 03:13 PM
If I remember correctly, he was a day or two ahead of the US press on the Swine Flu thing, too.
I'm pretty sure the guidestones were his work too (and that's only partially tongue-in-cheek ;):D):

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/population_control/images/gg3.gif

Tybee Island
06-13-09, 05:47 PM
I believe the Germans are saying that the bonds are indeed authentic.

Trying to get additional verification.

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article3918926/Geschmuggelte-Anleihen-sind-wohl-echt.html


http://www.handelsblatt.com/journal/nachrichten/schmuggel-anleihen-wahrscheinlich-echt;2355175

FRED
06-13-09, 06:52 PM
I believe the Germans are saying that the bonds are indeed authentic.

Trying to get additional verification.

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article3918926/Geschmuggelte-Anleihen-sind-wohl-echt.html


http://www.handelsblatt.com/journal/nachrichten/schmuggel-anleihen-wahrscheinlich-echt;2355175

The contraband securities valued at 134 billion U.S. dollars are apparently real. The Italian financial police had two Japanese caught in the false bottom suitcase billion-dollar bonds in Switzerland wanted to create. The Fund benefited from the Heavily Italy.

At least part of the bonds worth 96 billion euros, the two men on the Italian border into Switzerland smuggle wanted, is probably real.

It said a representative of the Italian financial police Como on Saturday. Among the finds are ten so-called Kennedy-bonds to one billion dollars (715 million euros) and 249 U.S. government bonds with a nominal value of 500 million U.S. dollars each (about 358 million euros).

The tax collectors had the valuable papers on 3 June in the double bottom of a suitcase was discovered. The train traveling towards Switzerland owners - the information after two Japanese over 50 - were arrested on a provisional basis.

"As to the authenticity of the Kennedy-Bonds is concerned, we still have doubts, but the U.S. government bonds worth some 358 million euros seem credible. They are made of filigree paper of excellent quality," said Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli. Moreover, the papers an extensive Bank in the original documentation.

The examination of the securities has not yet been completed. The Guardia di Finanza "investigating together with the American secret service. Mecarelli According to the Italian customs so far counterfeit securities with up to a billion dollars worth aufgestöbert.

The huge smuggling scandal could prove to be unexpected cash injection for the indebted Italy out: If the authenticity of the securities threaten the smugglers high penalties, because it is prohibited, amounts in excess of 10,000 euros in non-EU countries which are without them at customs indicated. The state is expected to 40 percent of the total seized keep: These would be approximately 38.5 billion euros.

Chomsky
06-13-09, 07:19 PM
The contraband securities valued at 134 billion U.S. dollars are apparently real. The Italian financial police had two Japanese caught in the false bottom suitcase billion-dollar bonds in Switzerland wanted to create. The Fund benefited from the Heavily Italy.

At least part of the bonds worth 96 billion euros, the two men on the Italian border into Switzerland smuggle wanted, is probably real.

It said a representative of the Italian financial police Como on Saturday. Among the finds are ten so-called Kennedy-bonds to one billion dollars (715 million euros) and 249 U.S. government bonds with a nominal value of 500 million U.S. dollars each (about 358 million euros).

The tax collectors had the valuable papers on 3 June in the double bottom of a suitcase was discovered. The train traveling towards Switzerland owners - the information after two Japanese over 50 - were arrested on a provisional basis.

"As to the authenticity of the Kennedy-Bonds is concerned, we still have doubts, but the U.S. government bonds worth some 358 million euros seem credible. They are made of filigree paper of excellent quality," said Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli. Moreover, the papers an extensive Bank in the original documentation.

The examination of the securities has not yet been completed. The Guardia di Finanza "investigating together with the American secret service. Mecarelli According to the Italian customs so far counterfeit securities with up to a billion dollars worth aufgestöbert.

The huge smuggling scandal could prove to be unexpected cash injection for the indebted Italy out: If the authenticity of the securities threaten the smugglers high penalties, because it is prohibited, amounts in excess of 10,000 euros in non-EU countries which are without them at customs indicated. The state is expected to 40 percent of the total seized keep: These would be approximately 38.5 billion euros.

Uh, you might want to go back and edit the above. Syntax errors abound. (babelfish uncorrected?)

FRED
06-13-09, 08:03 PM
Uh, you might want to go back and edit the above. Syntax errors abound. (babelfish uncorrected?)

We prefer google translate (http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#). Left the errors in on purpose.

jtabeb
06-13-09, 09:15 PM
Wasn't Don Johnson caught with $8 billion of the same (or similiar) crossing the Swiss border a few years ago?

Very quick "googled" link to said news item (http://www.viperalley.com/forum/anything-goes/2094-don-johnson-arrested-8-a.html)


Sounds like fraud racketeering (money laundering) to me.

NO, this SOUNDS EXACTLY like a CIA dis-information operation.

grandcru
06-15-09, 08:19 AM
I believe the Germans are saying that the bonds are indeed authentic.

Trying to get additional verification.

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article3918926/Geschmuggelte-Anleihen-sind-wohl-echt.html


http://www.handelsblatt.com/journal/nachrichten/schmuggel-anleihen-wahrscheinlich-echt;2355175

yes the german `handelsblatt`(similar to WSJ) quotes from their sources that the bonds are real beside the kennedy bonds are fake.

greetings from germany

Tybee Island
06-15-09, 08:28 AM
Thank you for the verification. This is getting very interesting. Why isn't the American news media picking this up?

Tybee Island
06-15-09, 09:55 AM
Heard from my contact inside Bloomberg this morning. A story is forthcoming on the mystery of the $134.5 Billion in US bonds found in Chiasso, Italy from a reporter they have in Milan....stay tuned.

Slimprofits
06-15-09, 10:30 AM
Thank you for the verification. This is getting very interesting. Why isn't the American news media picking this up?

It's obvious that there is a freeze on. We see this every once in a while, where a story involving people from our country gets coverage elsewhere but NONE, ZERO from the Associated Press, the WaPo Co., the NYT. Co., News Corp., Tribune Corp, G.E., Disney, Viacom, etc.

I would love to really know how this works. What does your friend from bloomberg say? If a reporter hears about a story that is seemingly important but getting zero coverage, do they approach an editor and get shot down?

cobben
06-16-09, 04:10 AM
An interesting thought from Denninger (yes, he does have a few), believable if one believes CA Fitts' allegations of wholesale counterfeiting of MBS.

In some other thread I joked about how the US would defacto default on it's debt by requiring verification of the paper trail on each bond, a process that could stretch out over years if not decades, a no recourse situation for the holders during which of couse no interest would be paid. Treasury to bond holders: "Don't call us, we'll call you."


http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1119-The-Saga-Of-The-Bearer-Bonds.html

" . . .
So what remains? Let's run a theory here - one of the few possible remaining options, given the exclusion of what we know not to be true...
Are we willing to assume that all the "issue" of Treasury bonds has been done "above board" as required by law. If Treasury has been surreptitiously issuing bonds to, say, Japan, as a means of financing deficits that someone didn't want reported over the last, oh, say 10 or 20 years, then the following is about to occur:
http://tickerforum.org/smilies-local/shitstorm.gif
Who could have possibly been complicit in such a scheme? I can come up with only two nations (and only nations could be involved due to size): The Japanese and Chinese. Since the two individuals who were arrested were reported to be Japanese nationals......"

grandcru
06-16-09, 07:18 AM
yes the german `handelsblatt`(similar to WSJ) quotes from their sources that the bonds are real beside the kennedy bonds are fake.

greetings from germany

http://http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129/index.html (http://http//www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129/index.html)

today there is an article in berlins biggest newspaper.

summary: *two japanese were arrested - now released
*italien police says bonds are 99 % real because the
bank registration which was also found is real
* these bonds are only meant for CB`s
* the newspaper assumes that the 134 billion in bonds is in
connection with timmy`s 134 billion reserve
*yesterdays meeting of pm berlusconi and obama is also
in connection with the bonds
* sec is now checking the authenticity
* american intelligence agency is also investigating in italy

greetings from germany

Tybee Island
06-16-09, 07:24 AM
The link didn't work for me, could you check it again.

This is really amazing news. The bonds are real opens issues that the US can't easily dismiss.

If only intended for Central Banks, to whom were the original bonds issued?

Were they off the books and unknown to the public until now?

This story isn't going away, and the fact that not one US News source is running with it makes it all the more believable that they are real!

Rahm has cut the tongue out of every news source in the country.

grandcru
06-16-09, 09:27 AM
The link didn't work for me, could you check it again.

.

i`ve tried to correct the link - for case it doesn`t work i copied the text from the website below

greetings

http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129

<!-- active=/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129/ --> <!--googleon: index--> <!-- Ende Hauptnavigation --> <!--article --> Archiv (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/index.fcgi) » 2009 (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/index.html) » 16. Juni (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/index.html) » Seite 1 (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/index.html?ressort=Seite+1)
Textarchiv (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/index.fcgi)

Das Milliardending

An der Schweizer Grenze fliegen zwei Schmuggler auf. Sie führen rätselhafte US-Staatspapiere mit sich

<address class="author">Julius Müller-Meiningen</address> Ruhig fährt der Zug von Mailand in Richtung Schweizer Grenze. Dorthin in dieses kleine Reich, wo die Reichen mit Motorbooten über Seen jagen und die Banken nie Geheimnisse ausplaudern. Ein paar Pendler sitzen im Zug, daneben zwei Japaner. Bevor es über die Grenze geht, steigen zwei Zollfahnder zu. Die beiden Männer sind auffällig. Und bald fliegt ein seltsamer Deal auf: Unter dem doppelten Boden eines Koffers stellen die Zollbeamten Staatsanleihen mit einem Wert von 134,5 Milliarden Dollar - 96 Milliarden Euro - sicher.
Die beiden Männer werden festgenommen. Doch Fragen bleiben. Wenn es sich bei den Anleihen nicht um Fälschungen handelt, wäre es einer der größten Fälle von Wertpapier-Schmuggel der Geschichte. Zumindest ein Teil der Anleihen, 249 Staatsobligationen der US-Notenbank Fed, jede mit einem Wert von 500 Millionen Dollar, wirken authentisch. Im Koffer befindet sich laut Polizei auch ein Bank-Register, in dem die Wertpapiere aufgelistet sind.
Von Kennedy-Bonds sprechen die Ermittler, weil die Papiere das Bild des früheren US-Präsidenten tragen. Doch dass die Anleihen echt sind,, daran zweifeln die Experten. Der Wert der Papiere ist unvorstellbar groß - selbst in staatsausgabefreudigen Krisenzeiten. Eigentlich handeln nur Staatsbanken mit solchen Anleihen.
Und so wird in Italien derzeit gerätselt. Flog im beschaulichen Chiasso etwa ein Schwindel von weltweitem Ausmaß auf? 134,5 Milliarden Dollar, das ist exakt die Summe, die das US-Finanzministerium im April noch als Reserve aus dem Finanzrettungspaket zurückgehalten haben soll. Der US-Geheimdienst ist inzwischen eingeschaltet, die beiden Japaner auf freiem Fuß. Das verführt zu Spekulationen. Zufällig weilte gestern Italiens Premier Silvio Berlusconi bei US-Präsident Barack Obama. Offiziell ging es um Afghanistan. Doch lässt die US-Börsenaufsicht die Echtheit der Zertifikate prüfen, das Ergebnis soll in wenigen Tagen vorliegen. Nur einer kann sich trotz aller Ungereimheiten freuen. Italiens Finanzminister: Sollten die Titel authentisch sein, beträgt die Strafe 40 Prozent der geschmuggelten Summe. Das wären 38 Milliarden Euro.

Chomsky
06-16-09, 10:29 AM
i`ve tried to correct the link - for case it doesn`t work i copied the text from the website below

greetings

http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129

<!-- active=/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129/ --> <!--googleon: index--> <!-- Ende Hauptnavigation --> <!--article --> Archiv (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/index.fcgi) » 2009 (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/index.html) » 16. Juni (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/index.html) » Seite 1 (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/index.html?ressort=Seite+1)
Textarchiv (http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/index.fcgi)

Das Milliardending

An der Schweizer Grenze fliegen zwei Schmuggler auf. Sie führen rätselhafte US-Staatspapiere mit sich

<address class="author">Julius Müller-Meiningen</address> Ruhig fährt der Zug von Mailand in Richtung Schweizer Grenze. Dorthin in dieses kleine Reich, wo die Reichen mit Motorbooten über Seen jagen und die Banken nie Geheimnisse ausplaudern. Ein paar Pendler sitzen im Zug, daneben zwei Japaner. Bevor es über die Grenze geht, steigen zwei Zollfahnder zu. Die beiden Männer sind auffällig. Und bald fliegt ein seltsamer Deal auf: Unter dem doppelten Boden eines Koffers stellen die Zollbeamten Staatsanleihen mit einem Wert von 134,5 Milliarden Dollar - 96 Milliarden Euro - sicher.
Die beiden Männer werden festgenommen. Doch Fragen bleiben. Wenn es sich bei den Anleihen nicht um Fälschungen handelt, wäre es einer der größten Fälle von Wertpapier-Schmuggel der Geschichte. Zumindest ein Teil der Anleihen, 249 Staatsobligationen der US-Notenbank Fed, jede mit einem Wert von 500 Millionen Dollar, wirken authentisch. Im Koffer befindet sich laut Polizei auch ein Bank-Register, in dem die Wertpapiere aufgelistet sind.
Von Kennedy-Bonds sprechen die Ermittler, weil die Papiere das Bild des früheren US-Präsidenten tragen. Doch dass die Anleihen echt sind,, daran zweifeln die Experten. Der Wert der Papiere ist unvorstellbar groß - selbst in staatsausgabefreudigen Krisenzeiten. Eigentlich handeln nur Staatsbanken mit solchen Anleihen.
Und so wird in Italien derzeit gerätselt. Flog im beschaulichen Chiasso etwa ein Schwindel von weltweitem Ausmaß auf? 134,5 Milliarden Dollar, das ist exakt die Summe, die das US-Finanzministerium im April noch als Reserve aus dem Finanzrettungspaket zurückgehalten haben soll. Der US-Geheimdienst ist inzwischen eingeschaltet, die beiden Japaner auf freiem Fuß. Das verführt zu Spekulationen. Zufällig weilte gestern Italiens Premier Silvio Berlusconi bei US-Präsident Barack Obama. Offiziell ging es um Afghanistan. Doch lässt die US-Börsenaufsicht die Echtheit der Zertifikate prüfen, das Ergebnis soll in wenigen Tagen vorliegen. Nur einer kann sich trotz aller Ungereimheiten freuen. Italiens Finanzminister: Sollten die Titel authentisch sein, beträgt die Strafe 40 Prozent der geschmuggelten Summe. Das wären 38 Milliarden Euro.


Not sure what you're doing wrong with the links, but here's one that works:

http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/2009/0616/seite1/0129/index.html

Slimprofits
06-16-09, 12:22 PM
The Times (UK)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6507161.ece


June 16, 2009
Japanese pair arrested in Italy with US bonds worth $134 billion
Richard Owen in Rome

Italian prosecutors were trying to establish yesterday whether US bonds with a face value of $134 billion seized from two alleged smugglers were real or counterfeit.

The bonds were found when the two men — said to be Japanese but as yet not identified — were arrested while attempting to cross into Switzerland from Italy by train at the frontier town of Chiasso this month. Prosecutors in Como said that the two men had hidden the bonds in the false bottom of a suitcase.

Police said that Chiasso was a notorious crossing point for currency and bond smugglers but the sums involved this time were “colossal”. The amount of $134 billion would place the two travellers as the fourth most important investors in US debt, well ahead of Britain ($128.2 billion) and just behind Russia ($138.4 billion).

The bonds were described as being 249 US Federal Reserve bonds each worth $500 million, plus ten Kennedy bonds with face values of $1 billion, in addition to various other types. Police said that the two men had stayed at a hotel in Milan last Tuesday. Instead of taking the express train to Lugano, they had boarded a slow commuter train from a suburban station to attract less attention.

Slimprofits
06-16-09, 12:28 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo


Italian Police Ask SEC to Authenticate Seized U.S. Treasuries

By Sonia Sirletti and John Glover

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Italy’s financial police said they asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland.

The bonds, with a face value of more than $134 billion, are probably forgeries, Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli of the Guardia di Finanza in Como, Italy, said today. If the notes are genuine, the pair would be the U.S. government’s fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the U.K. with $128 billion of U.S. debt and just behind Russia, which is owed $138 billion.

The seized notes include 249 securities with a face value of $500 million each and 10 additional bonds with a value of more than $1 billion, the police force said on its Web site. Such high denominations would not have existed in 1934, the purported issue date of the notes, Mecarelli said. Moreover, the “Kennedy” classification of the bonds doesn’t appear to exist, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=ayy1QKcwcGN0


Japan Probes Report Two Seized With Undeclared Bonds (Update2)

By Shunichi Ozasa and Makiko Kitamura

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan is investigating reports two of its citizens were detained in Italy after allegedly attempting to take $134 billion worth of U.S. bonds over the border into Switzerland.

“Italian authorities are in the midst of the investigation, and haven’t yet confirmed the details, including whether they are Japanese citizens or not,” Takeshi Akamatsu, a spokesman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said by telephone today in Tokyo. “Our consulate in Milan is continuing efforts to confirm the reports.”

An official at the Consulate General of Japan in Milan, who only gave his name as Ikeda, said it still hasn’t been confirmed that the individuals are Japanese. “We are in contact with the Italian Financial Police and the Italian Public Prosecutor’s Office,” Ikeda said by phone today.

the International Business Times (UK):

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20090612/japanese-citizens-bonds-arrests_all.htm

LargoWinch
06-16-09, 06:46 PM
Here is the news on Japanese television, but my Japanese is too rusty/basic for that...ASH do you understand anything?

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LargoWinch
06-16-09, 07:20 PM
...oh I almost forgot; MSM is only now catching up to iTulip, a full five days later :)


Runtime: 4min.
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Chris Coles
06-16-09, 07:38 PM
Having given this much thought I have come to the conclusion that this is an exercise, stemming from the heart of the US Treasury, designed to buy $134.5 billion of Gold by the back door that has gone disastrously wrong. They had the money in hand with no where to place it and with the likelihood that if inflation takes off the value will go South. The sum is way too much to place by conventional means without drawing attention to what they were doing so they had some "operatives" set off to carry the bonds into Switzerland to do the trade by the back door.

I give Geitner another week before he resigns.

cjppjc
06-16-09, 08:02 PM
...oh I almost forgot; MSM is only now catching up to iTulip, a full five days later :)


Runtime: 4min.

<OBJECT width=425 height=344>


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LKjKBr9DFzA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></OBJECT>



5 days later is record time for the MSM.

ASH
06-17-09, 03:15 AM
Here is the news on Japanese television, but my Japanese is too rusty/basic for that...ASH do you understand anything?

Alas, I have basic sentence structure but a tiny tiny vocabulary, so I'm no help. Immersion probably would have worked -- I was just paid a visit by a friend who only speaks to his 3-year-old daughter in Hebrew, and she is clearly bilingual -- but my mother took a more "classroom" style approach when I was older, which didn't do the trick.

She does read the Japanese papers online, so perhaps I should ask her what they're saying.

Tybee Island
06-17-09, 09:41 AM
The US MSM lack of coverage is deafening. This seems to lend even more credibility to the very authenticity of the bonds.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If bonds like these were being issued off the books pre-1982 it calls into question the entire legitimacy of the entire US bond complex.

How is it that the US Treasury Secretary isn't shouting from roof tops that the bonds are counterfeit if he in fact believes them to be fakes? Why isn't he defending the credit worthiness of the US?

If they are real, then in one small briefcase was the 4th largest aggregated amount of US Debt traveling to a clandestine meeting in Switzerland.

If they are Fake, we have a counterfeit scheme of a scale never imagined before.

Where is the Wall Street Journal? The level of capture of the US media by this administration is putting the old soviet bloc to shame.

thedanimal
06-17-09, 09:44 AM
Where is the Wall Street Journal? The level of capture of the US media by this administration is putting the old soviet bloc to shame.


If you think this admin is any different than the previous one in this regard, you're fooling yourself.

ThePythonicCow
06-17-09, 01:19 PM
If you think this admin is any different than the previous one in this regard, you're fooling yourself.

The main stream media made a joke of Bush 43. They adore Obama. That is a difference, though perhaps not the difference you are disputing the existence of.

Slimprofits
06-17-09, 02:29 PM
The main stream media made a joke of Bush 43.

In 2003, the White House declared that the mission had been accomplished, but in 2004 the occupation of Iraq proved not to be so easy. It was than the non-News. Corporation and Clear Channel msm entities directed energies against the Bush administration. But still after winning the election, Time Magazine (Time Warner) named Bush it's person of the year in December of 2004.

You might recall that in the runup to the invasion it was no less than the New York Times which acted as the most important pass through for agit-prop from the administration through their star saleswoman, Judith Miller.

In 2005, the real nasty stuff picked up with Hurricane Katrina.

Bush enjoyed support across the political spectrum before all of that hit, especially after 9/11.

Obama on the other hand, has been incessantly attacked since before day one (during the election) by the msm entities aimed at the American Republican base audience. Clear Channel, News. Corp and the investors that watch CNBC.

WDCRob
06-17-09, 03:13 PM
Obama's problem (IMHO) is that he believes he can always find a multi-party solution to any problem - that there's nothing that can't be solved by negotiating. I also find him too confident that he can solve any problem. In short, as EJ observes, that he's naive. I think he could stand to fail at something big.

Just found something I wrote to some friends on 1/7/08:

I'd like to vote for Obama, but have this same reservation. It's been obvious since Newt's gang rode into town that the Dems are intent on bringing a knife to a gunfight, but now they're busy making 'switchblades' with popsicle sticks and rubber bands.

Arriving in the White House with the intention of doing anything other than making full use of the majority and every (legal) nut-kicking, eye-gouging, thumb-breaking hold you know is just plain naive.

"If they won't fight for themselves, why the fuck should you trust them to fight for you?" That should be the Republicans first line of attack in the general election.


Truer now than ever.

Ghent12
06-24-09, 05:37 PM
"U.S. Dollar Bonds"

Fake bonds, said to have been issued in the 1930's by the CIA to help Chiang Kai-shek fight the communists, and buried in caves by his generals and their heirs for years, have recently been "unearthed".

They are now being fraudulently offered to people at a fraction of their face value.Many inquiries come from West Coast law firms that are checking on the validity of these bonds for clients that reside in China, Singapore and Taiwan.

Most of these fictitious obligations refer to the Ministry of Finance of the United States and the of America neither of which has ever existed.
This must be like the time when the United States of America secretly planted propaganda in Italy and worked with the Spanish monarchy to recruit Christopher Columbus to discover the New World.

metalman
06-24-09, 11:33 PM
This must be like the time when the United States of America secretly planted propaganda in Italy and worked with the Spanish monarchy to recruit Christopher Columbus to discover the New World.

and this...


Ministry of Finance of the United States and the of America neither of which has ever existed.

that ain't true... (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=9j0&q=site%3Aitulip.com+paulson+finance+minister&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)

Ghent12
06-25-09, 12:59 PM
and this...


that ain't true... (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=9j0&q=site%3Aitulip.com+paulson+finance+minister&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)
My post was more of a play on the activity of the CIA in the 1930's. That someone would refer to a Treasury Secretary as a Minister of Finance is not especially troubling, and can be accounted for as translation error and/or negligent reporting.